Thursday, July 26, 2018

Daemons Discuss - Podcast: Take 42! | Chapter Discussion about the All Souls Trilogy; Chapter 18 of Shadow of Night

Between the traveling de Clermonts and the description of Hubbard, how could we NOT hearken back to vampire lore?

Take 42 - The One With the Vampire King

Description: We meet Andrew Hubbard! According to Gallowglass and Hancock, we probably should've met him much earlier. Our initial impressions of him range from a creepy cult leader, to the altruistic ruler of a land of misfit creatures; we discuss this, and how Diana Bishop is the one who has to fix this mess that Matthew Clairmont has created for her (again!). We forgive you, Matthew, but boy! You irritate us sometimes! Stay tuned for our reaction to the ADOW TV trailer, and news that was new to us at the time of recording. Long episode, but worth it to stick with us until the end!

SPOILER ALERT! We (The Daemons) approach this podcast with an assumption that the listener has read The All Souls Trilogy, including A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night, The Book of Life, and snippits from The World of All Souls. If you haven't, and you don't mind, we certainly don't mind!  😊  Let's do this. *Note - this podcast is labeled 'explicit'

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1. Show notes:

For newcomers to the series: We'll start with the basics: The books in discussion are A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night and The Book of Life.  Together they make The All Souls Trilogy by Deborah Harkness.
- Our Daemon Guides to the All Souls Trilogy are available for download: ADOW, SON, TBOL

Deb's newsletter - The Blast; subscribe on her website
- If you'd like a ready-reference from the author herself, be sure to download the All Souls Real-Time Reading companion (free e-book at online booksellers via Penguin and Headline books).
- Deborah Harkness usually conducts a real-time reading on her Facebook Page (starting in September), and shares her posts across social media. Check out her website for all of her social media links, and of course all that she has to offer her readers! Be sure to sign up for her newsletter while you are there!
- To see what's available on the web as far as the All Souls universe fandom, check our links page.

In this episode:
* (00:00) - Pre-show catch up: we now know when/where A Discovery of Witches (the TV show) will air in the UK, US and Canada. At the time of this recording we didn't have the information, but now we do! We have all of this listed on our TV news page, but here is the information: US BROADCASTER ANNOUNCED! ‘A Discovery Of Witches’: Sundance Now & Shudder To Stream Sky’s Drama Series
* According to this IG post from Sundance Now, US viewers will have this series in early 2019.
* UK viewers will have this series 14 September 2018 via SkyOne.

* (01:57) – This podcast is brought to you by our Patrons! To become a patron all you need to do is visit us at and become a member. See what level tier you'd like to join us! All tier levels will receive access to our exclusive Daemons Discuss! The Aftershow podcast.

* (03:24) – Thank you to our Discussers Ana, Lisa, NE Angela, Michelle! Full emails can read here!

* (13:46) – This chapter discussion is brought to you by Kathryn Quirk! Thanks Kathryn!

Check out the Ripley's Scroll from the Beinecke Library!
a. Chapter 18
* (14:40) Lab coats and eau de pickle.
  • We discuss the lab coat … and contemplate Elizabethan Velcro -- we decide maybe they used pins that way, and Angela suggested that perhaps someone could've invented a version using burrs. 😵
  • Ripley's Scroll - Deb has shared the one from the Beinecke's Rare Book & Manuscript collection. You can get a closer look on our IG page!
  • "Prim Victorian"we discuss the juxtaposition between the Elizabethan era vs. the Victorian era. “Matthew,” I murmured. The countess’s maid, Joan, was standing right behind us. “You’re behaving like a prim Victorian rather than a bawdy Elizabethan,” Matthew said, laughing. 
  • Diana is a student again! We discuss how these books have made us students again! Anyway, the excitement over the exploding flasks … “We hunted the green lion,” I replied proudly, referring to a stage of the alchemical process that combined two acidic solutions and produced startling color transformations. “We almost caught it, too. But then something went wrong and the flask exploded. It was fantastic!” 
  • Beardy goodness. Yup, we went back to that ditch to visit the scene of the original crime.
  • Alchemy and our ignorance of it: proof is displayed in this episode.
  • Penelope and weavers; In Homer's Odyssey, Penelope is the wife of Odysseus, who is known for her fidelity to Odysseus while he was absent, despite having many suitors. Pēnelopē (Πηνελόπη) is usually understood to combine the Greek word pēnē (πήνη), "weft", and ōps (ὤψ), "face", which is considered the most appropriate for a cunning weaver whose motivation is hard to decipher. “Someone’s building a bonfire across the river for New Year’s Eve. Every time they send the wagon for fresh wood, the local residents filch what’s already there. The pile gets smaller by the hour. It’s like watching Penelope ply her needle.” 
  • Lady Pembroke’s past ... “Lady Pembroke’s mother was Mary Dudley, a friend of Her Majesty and sister to the queen’s favorite, Robert.” Matthew’s mouth twisted. “She was brilliant, just like her daughter. Mary Dudley filled her head with ideas so there was no room in it for knowledge of her father’s treason, or her brothers’ missteps. When she caught smallpox from our blessed sovereign, Mary Dudley never acknowledged that both the queen and her own husband thereafter preferred the company of others rather than face her disfigurement.” 
  • Sweet Robin — the dude that supposedly undid the virginity of Queen Elizabeth.
  • Mary was married at 15. Of Mary's mother: “She died alone and embittered, like most Dudley women before her. Her greatest triumph was marrying off her fifteen-year-old namesake to the forty-year-old Earl of Pembroke.” “Mary Sidney was a bride at fifteen?” The shrewd, vibrant woman ran an enormous household, reared a pack of energetic children, and was devoted to her alchemical experiments, all with no apparent effort. Now I understood how. Lady Pembroke was younger than me by a few years, but by the age of thirty she’d been juggling these responsibilities for half her life. 
  • We discuss that now Diana has a female friend. Yay!🙌
  • The teen vamps have arrived; they bring a message. “Master Roydon.” The taller of the two vampires tugged at the tip of his nose and studied Matthew with eyes the color of indigo. Those eyes moved from Matthew to me, and my skin smarted from the cold. “Mistress.” Matthew’s hand tightened on his dagger, and Pierre moved to stand more squarely between us and the door. “Father Hubbard wants to see you,” the smaller vampire said, looking with contempt at the weapon in Matthew’s hand. “Come when the clocks toll seven.” 
  • We spin into a conversation about Claudia of The Vampire Chronicles.
  • Father Hubbard wants to see them. 🧛🏻‍♂️YIKES! Matthew thinks it's time to kill maim the messenger.“I see.” Matthew’s voice went flat. There was a blur of black and silver, and his polished dagger was quivering, point first, in the doorjamb near Corner’s eye. Matthew strolled in their direction. Both vampires took an involuntary step back. “Thank you for the message, Leonard.” He nudged the door closed with his foot.
  • Matthew decides to sort of tell Diana about Hubbard. “Andrew Hubbard is a vampire. He rules London.” 
  • Matthew is irritating us at this point. Matthew loses his sh*t.“Father Hubbard?” I reminded him. But Matthew’s mind was elsewhere. “You’re going to get yourself killed,” he said roughly, his back still turned. “Ysabeau warned me you have no instinct for self-preservation. How many times does something like this have to happen before you develop one?” “What have I done now?” 
  • Andrew’s backstory. Matthew’s version: “Andrew Hubbard is a former priest, one with a poor education and enough grasp of theology to cause trouble. He became a vampire when the plague first came to London. It had killed nearly half the city by 1349. Hubbard survived the first wave of the epidemic, caring for the sick and burying the dead, but in time he succumbed.” “And someone saved him by making him a vampire.” 
  • Why should we care about who made Hubbard? This is later revealed to be quite important, indeed.
  • Matthew, ya think? “Philippe and Hubbard reached an agreement that exempted the de Clermonts from his family rituals and obligations. I probably should have told him you were my wife before we entered the city.”
This is the essence of what we envision on the way to Hubbard's. This is actually St. Michan's Church's Crypt of Mummies
* (40:04) – Enter Gallowglass and Hancock! Time to meet the Vampire King!
  • We love Hancock’s rebuke - “Your only plan was to avoid Hubbard. You don’t have another. We’ve never been certain if you were a brave man or a fool, de Clermont, but I think this might decide the question—and not in your favor.”
  • Matthew excuses his actions (would non-action be the better word?) - The Blackfriers explained: “There was no need for haste. Diana is a de Clermont. Besides, we aren’t in the city,” Matthew said quickly. At my look of confusion, he continued. “The Blackfriars isn’t really part of London.”
  • Matthew and his #tidefail -- again. “We have plenty of time.” Matthew’s tone was dismissive. “You never have understood the tides, Matthew. I assume we’re going by water, since you think the Thames isn’t really part of the city either. If so, we may already be too late. Let’s move.” Gallowglass jerked his thumb in the direction of the front door.
  • A favorite, favorite, FAVORITE scene … our vampires all decked out! Once Gallowglass and Pierre were similarly outfitted, Françoise settled a matching cloak on Matthew’s shoulders. Its heavy folds swept the floor, making him look taller and even more imposing. When the four of them stood together, it was an intimidating sight, one that provided a plausible inspiration for every human account of darkly cloaked vampires ever written. 
  • Gallowglass grabs the boat (the usual way), they go onward (swiftly!), and we wonder about Gallowglass' feelings here. “There’s no need to draw attention to ourselves, Gallowglass,” Matthew said sharply. “Do you want to row and I’ll keep your wife warm?” When Matthew didn’t reply, Gallowglass shook his head. “Thought not.” 
  • Diana deludes herself here. Perhaps this would be simple, and we could meet Andrew Hubbard, show him my wedding ring, and return home.
  •  Diana stumbles behind these smooth vampires; We climbed to street level and wended through winding lanes in silence, darting between houses and across small gardens. The vampires moved with the stealth of cats. I moved less surely, stumbling on loose stones and stepping into waterlogged potholes. At last we turned in to a broad street. Laughter came from the far end, and light spilled into the street from wide windows. I rubbed my hands together, drawn to the warmth. 
  • The "Count Chocula" scene; We moved deeper into a warren of tunnels and subterranean rooms and entered a dimly lit crypt. Hollow eyes stared out from the heaped skulls in a small ossuary. A vibration in the stone floor and the muffled sound of bells indicated that somewhere above us the clocks were striking seven. Matthew hurried us along into another tunnel that showed a soft glow in the distance. 
  • Angela points the fact that the stage was set for us to opine about Father Hubbard based on the creeptastic surroundings, and Matthew's biased description to Diana. Jean's add on observation: "Pirates of the Caribbean ride, but stinky!"
  • The ritual (earlier in the episode we compared this ritual to Fernando's act of fealty to the Bishop-Clairmont scion):“My blood is yours, Father Hubbard.” The man who spoke was frightened. “I give it willingly, that you might know my heart and number me among your family.” There was silence, a cry of pain. Then the air filled with a taut sense of expectation. “I accept your gift, James, and promise to protect you as my child,” a rough voice answered. “In exchange you will honor me as your father. Greet your brothers and sisters.”
  •  All of the creatures . . . Creatures emerged from the shadows. I saw John Chandler, the apothecary from Cripplegate, who met my eyes defiantly. Kit was there, too, standing next to another daemon. When his friend’s arm slid through the crook in his elbow, Kit pulled away slightly. “Hello, Kit,” Matthew said, his voice dead. “I thought you would have run off and hidden by now.” 
  • “You’re late” - “You’re late.” The rumble of sound cut through the chatter and set the hair on my neck prickling. “And traveling with a full retinue, I see. “That’s impossible, since we had no appointment.” Matthew gripped my elbow as dozens of glances nudged, tingled, and chilled my skin. 
  • Hubbard’s description - Angela points out that he’s been turned while being infected with the plague and it probably impacted his overall appearance. The vampire’s eyes were the only colorful thing about him. Otherwise he was preternaturally pale, with white-blond hair cropped close to his skull, nearly invisible eyebrows and lashes, and a wide horizontal slash of lips set in a clean-shaven face. His long black coat, which looked like a cross between a scholar’s gown and a cleric’s cassock, accentuated his cadaverous build. There was no mistaking the strength in his broad, slightly stooped shoulders, but the rest of him was practically skeletal. 
  • Hubbard has us truly freaked out at this point ---> There was a blur of motion as blunt, powerful fingers took my chin and jerked my head to the side. In the same instant, Matthew’s hand wrapped around the vampire’s wrist.  Hubbard’s cold glance touched my neck, taking in the scar there. For once I wished Françoise had outfitted me with the largest ruff she could find. He exhaled in an icy gust smelling of cinnabar and fir before his wide mouth tightened, the edges of his lips turning from pale peach to white.
  •  Oh, we have no doubt, Matthew. “We have a problem, Master Roydon,” said Hubbard. “We have several, Father Hubbard. The first is that you have your hands on something that belongs to me. If you don’t remove them, I’ll tear this den to pieces before sunrise. What happens afterward will make every creature in the city—daemon, human, wearh, and witch—think the end of days is upon us.” Matthew’s voice vibrated with fury. 
  • Hancock's parting shot: “Your father says a wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountaintop. Let’s hope he’s right,” Hancock muttered, “because this is one hell of a hole you’ve put us in tonight.” With one last look, he followed Gallowglass and Pierre through a break in the far wall. A heavy door closed, and there was silence. 
  • The agreement between Hubbard and Philippe: “May I remind you, Monsieur de Clermont, you are here under my sufferance.” Hubbard sat in the chamber’s grand, solitary chair. “Even though you represent the Congregation, I permit your presence in London because your father demands it. But you have flouted our customs and allowed your wife to enter the city without introducing her to me and to my flock. And then there is the matter of your knights.” 
  • Kit’s multiple masters -- “I don’t buy love and loyalty, nor do I resort to intimidation and torment to have my way. Christopher willingly does what I ask, like all godly children do when they love their father.” “Kit has too many masters to be faithful to any one of them.” 
  • Hubbard, assesses the situation very cleanly. He points out that they are in a mixed marriage which many creatures find intolerable, she's pregnant, a "time spinner," and Matthew has taken her blood. There are all sorts of problems here, and Hubbard offers a solution.
  • Diana fixes this. “[...]Mistress Roydon. But you are not a de Clermont. You are merely married to one.” “Wrong,” I retorted, keeping my husband’s sleeve in a tight grip. “I am Philippe de Clermont’s blood-sworn daughter, as well as Matthew’s wife. I’m a de Clermont twice over, and neither I nor my child will ever call you father.” 
  • We wonder about the blood song. Could Hubbard hear it? Was he feigning ignorance? Is it a continuity error? Maybe we'll ask the question one day.
  • Diana, requests assistance from Hubbard. “Perhaps you can help me, then. I’m in London to seek help with some finer points of magic and witchcraft. Who among your children would you recommend for the task?” My request erased Matthew’s grin. 
  • Matthew complains. Diana is not having his mouth. 😒 Hubbard considered my request. “I will discuss your needs with my children and decide who might best serve you.” “Whoever he sends will be a spy,” Matthew warned. “You’re a spy, too,” I pointed out. “I’m tired. I want to go home.”
* (58:59) - Back home.
  • Walter wonders if this concerns the order. “I’m sorry to have called you. My alarm was premature,” Matthew said, his cloak swirling around his feet as he took it from his shoulders. “If it concerns the order—” Walter began, eyeing the cloak. “It doesn’t,” Matthew assured him.
  • Diana puts her foot down. “It concerns me,” I said. “And before you come up with some other disastrous scheme, understand this: The witches are my concern. Matthew is being watched, and not just by Andrew Hubbard.” 
  • Diana persuades Matthew. “We don’t have much time,” I reminded Matthew. Hubbard didn’t know that the baby was Matthew’s, and Hancock and Gallowglass hadn’t perceived the changes to my scent—yet. But this evening’s events had driven home our precarious position. 
  • We end this chapter on this note: “I trust my wife’s judgment,” Matthew said firmly. “That’s what Philippe says about Granny,” Gallowglass muttered under his breath. “Just before all hell breaks loose.”
  •  The Battle of Bosworth/War of the Roses ... The Knights Of Lazarus were (according to Deb, and by Philippe's orders) involved. Thanks for the egg, Angela!
* (1:03:12)  Housekeeping! Brought to you by Nancy Forrester! Thank you, Stephen see fig. 1 below & Wendy for your messages!

Fig. 1 -- Richard Field's publishing stamp/logo featuring the anchor that Stephen was referring to!
* (1:06:38) Save it for the show is brought to us by Angela Page (aka 'NE Angela')! Our thoughts on the trailer. We describe the day the trailer dropped, and what we were doing at the time. Angela loves the music from the trailer! Jean loved the pacing, the imagery and the combination of characters. We discuss the fact that we guessed it was coming to HBO (WE WERE WRONG! Meh, It happens!) Valerie loves Matthew Goode’s voice. Also, Angela delivers news  — we were recording while news broke that cast and show execs would be at San Diego Comic Con. Please see our TV page to view some of the footage from that event (we are time walkers! Our past selves were telling you all about your future!)

Cast/Execs at SDCC 2018; find more on our TV page
* (1:13:15)  Promo break – scroll down, or click here to get a hold of us and/or become a Discusser -- information on joining our Facebook group also located on that page. Those of you with US numbers can text ADOW to 444999 to become a Discusser.

* (1:14:27) Last thoughts/Things we can't let go of  ... 
  • Angela brings up the scent; cinnabar and fir/Hubbard’s scent. Jean thinks it has to do church incense. She then finds the connection to Dragon’s blood.
  • Jean notes that Sep. is going to be NUTS. New book/new TV show. We may skip real time read, but you can read with us using our past chapter reads: Our podcast chapter list.
  • Val to Camille (our witchy listener!), we did research on the gmail address listed in The World of All Souls — which one of you has it? Email us! We're curious!
General last thoughts public service announcements also jammed in there:
  • We do a drawing for the emoji contest we had a couple episodes ago. Congratulations, Stacey of A Page Turner's Blog! We do it again in this episode!
  • The Facebook group -- you guys know the deal! We've been squawking about it for the last three episodes. If you want to join, you'll have to answer the questions! (Thank you! 😗)
  • Please send us reviews if you enjoy our podcast! Angela is WILTING!
  • We are now on Google Podcasts!
  • Thanks to Pippa for featuring us! Oh, and if you ever consider doing a podcast, we totally recommend them!
* (1:26:58) -- 😍, because best t-shirt ever!

All Souls Con 2018

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Credits/Copyright Information * Intro music: "Ghost Dance" (edited down to second chorus) by Kevin Macleod, licensed for use by Creative Commons.
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* Our episode titles are a loving tribute to the show "Friends" just 'cause we love Friends and - let's face it - it's easier! Here's how one of the show creators explains their reasoning:
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This was a Daemon Production

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