Tuesday, July 10, 2018

Daemons Discuss - Podcast: Take 41! | Chapter Discussion about the All Souls Trilogy; Chapter 17 of Shadow of Night

Need powdered mouse ears? Books promising to vanquish diseases by employing mercury? C'mon down to Chandler's shop!

Take 41 - The One With the Trip to the Mall

Description: Join us as we follow Monsieur Pierre Cornu as he chases his errant charge, Diana Bishop, all over London! She's shopping for ink, sealing wax, paper, soap, some books -- oh, and did we mention a witch?

Stay tuned for later in the episode where we chat with Cait, of the podcast Chamomile and Clove!

SPOILER ALERT! We (The Daemons) approach this podcast with an assumption that the listener has read The All Souls Trilogy, including A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night, The Book of Life, and snippits from The World of All Souls. If you haven't, and you don't mind, we certainly don't mind!  😊  Let's do this. *Note - this podcast is labeled 'explicit'

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1. Show notes:

For newcomers to the series:- We'll start with the basics: The books in discussion are A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night and The Book of Life.  Together they make The All Souls Trilogy by Deborah Harkness.
- Our Daemon Guides to the All Souls Trilogy are available for download: ADOW, SON, TBOL

Deb's newsletter - The Blast; subscribe on her website
- If you'd like a ready-reference from the author herself, be sure to download the All Souls Real-Time Reading companion (free e-book at online booksellers via Penguin and Headline books).
- Deborah Harkness usually conducts a real-time reading on her Facebook Page (starting in September), and shares her posts across social media. Check out her website for all of her social media links, and of course all that she has to offer her readers! Be sure to sign up for her newsletter while you are there!
- To see what's available on the web as far as the All Souls universe fandom, check our links page.

In this episode:
* (01:10) - This podcast is brought to you by our Patrons! To become a patron all you need to do is visit us at Patreon.com/DaemonsDiscuss and become a member. See what level tier you'd like to join us! All tier levels will receive access to our exclusive Daemons Discuss! The Aftershow podcast.

* (02:15) – Thanks for the SpeakPipe messages, Patricia and Stephen!

* (07:23) – Thanks Discussers! Shouts to NE Angela and Teri!

* (11:26) – This chapter discussion is brought to you by Jody Kozey! Thanks Jody!

Old St. Pauls with its missing spire.
a. Chapter 17
* (11:54) - "Shopping Trip"
  • Diana’s going shopping! We have a new appreciation for Françoise this read. Jean thinks she’s a sh*t stirrer and a servant in Marthe’s mold, Valerie believes Diana isn't fooling Françoise. “Indeed?” Françoise’s eyes narrowed. She had suspected I was up to no good ever since I’d gotten dressed. Instead of grumbling about the number of petticoats she pulled over my head, today I’d added another made out of warm gray flannel. 
  • The color “dying Spaniard” a sickly gray-green taffeta (appropriately called “Dying Spaniard”) 
  • We discuss the minor conflict over dressing Then we argued about which gown I should wear. I preferred the comfortable clothes I’d brought from France over Louisa de Clermont’s more splendid garments. Matthew’s sister, with her dark hair and porcelain skin, could pull off a gown of vivid turquoise velvet (“Verdigris,” Françoise had corrected me) 
  • Pierre is not happy about this outing at all. We see this as the servants playing babysitter for Matthew's unpredictable toddler. “Perhaps madame should wait until Master Roydon returns,” Pierre suggested. He shifted nervously from one foot to the other. 
  • Storing money in your bodice? Was that an actual thing? We are going to think it was, because it was convenient, but it very well could be something that Hollywood came up with: 7 Things Historical Women Wore Under Their Skirts 
  • Pierre’s got a diaper bag -- er -- fanny pack --er --bum bag to haul Diana's cash“Madame will not carry money at all!” Françoise pointed to Pierre, who loosened the strings of a bag tied around his waist. It was apparently bottomless and held a considerable stash of pointy implements, including pins, needles, something that looked like a set of picklocks, and a dagger. Once my leather bag was included, it jingled at his slightest movement. We suspect Françoise's reaction is because women of Diana's stature did not carry money. They have pack mules servants for that.
  • They head out, grab a snack and we visit the printer and his wife in the neighborhood. They know a lot about Diana’s business.
  • We discuss Kit’s possible role in spreading Diana’s business about town. 
  • Nicholas Vallin, the clockmaker (see Musical Chamber Clock by Nicholas Vallin) is suggested to Diana for making a signet ring; we discuss some of the monopolies at the time -- like The Goldsmith's company as described in this article, The Livery Company in the Sixteenth Century from British History Online - 'In other cases they challenged the authority of the oligarchy by trying to secure some control over the election of officers, as did the yeomanry of the Goldsmiths' Company in 1529.  Other craftsmen, realizing how inadequately supervision was carried out, did their best to make it more effective by trying to draw all craftsmen into the Company, by trying to work out improved systems of inspection, or even by accepting the protection of a monopolist to whom they were prepared to give the right to collect certain fees in return for certain services.' 
  • Diana needs an apothecary – Val needs assistance rolling this off of her tongue – Jacqueline has some mischief in her recommendations! 
  • "Megraines?" Migraines, most likely. Moving on! 
  • Diana decides St. Pauls is the place to go! Pierre: oh crap. “I’m going on to the cathedral,” I said, heading in the other direction. Impossibly, Pierre was standing before me. “Milord will not be pleased.” “Milord is not here. Matthew left strict instructions that I wasn’t to go there without you. He didn’t say I was a prisoner in my own house.” I thrust the book and the buns at Françoise. “If Matthew returns before I do, tell him where we are and that I’ll be back soon.” Françoise took the parcels, exchanged a long look with Pierre, and proceeded down Water Lane. 
  • Milord does not like John Hester! 
  • Pierre puts his foot down! We also learn of his last name here. Since names are important - Cornu = horn. “Can you point me in the direction of his shop?” Pierre grabbed my elbow. “Non,” he hissed in my ear. As this only earned us more human attention, he quickly dropped it again. The scrivener’s hand rose and pointed east. “You will find him at Paul’s Wharf. Go to the Bishop’s Head and then turn south. But Monsieur Cornu knows the way.” 
  • No wonder Matthew looks tired! “That’s Matthew Roydon’s wife?” someone said with a chuckle as we stepped out of the throng. “Mon dieu. No wonder he looks exhausted.”
  • The surge of energy; Temple of Diana at St. Pauls - Jean brings up a legend of a Temple built for Diana was buried under the foundation of St. Pauls. Was that what Diana was feeling? London's pre-Roman Temples 
  • Pierre! Stay! Good dog! “Stay here and don’t move,” I ordered, giving him a stern look. My chances of catching the eye of a friendly witch might increase if he weren’t standing by radiating vampire disapproval.  
  • It’s George … Diana did not plan on this. “Mistress Roydon?” a familiar voice called. “What brings you here?” George Chapman’s ruddy face poked out between the shoulders of two dour-looking gentlemen who were listening to the preacher blame the ills of the world on an unholy cabal of Catholics and merchant adventurers. 
  • Everyone has a “man!” “You’ll need an apothecary, then. Come, I’ll take you to my own man.” George held out his elbow. “He is quite reasonable, as well as skilled.” 
  • George has stories to tell Diana. George was happy to gossip about the many playwrights Ponsonby snubbed, including Kit. Ponsonby preferred to work with the serious literary set, and his stable of authors was illustrious indeed: Edmund Spenser, the Countess of Pembroke, Philip Sidney
  • More history on Henry “That’s where Henry’s mother lives,” George said, gesturing at a particularly imposing set of buildings to our left. “He hates the place and lived around the corner from Matt until Mary convinced him that his lodgings were beneath an earl’s dignity. Now he’s moved into a house on the Strand. Mary is pleased, but Henry finds it gloomy, and the damp disagrees with his bones.” 
  • The ghetto George took Diana to - Cripplegate.
  • The Lie
Say to the court, it glows
And shines like rotten wood;
Say to the church, it shows
What’s good, and doth no good.
If church and court reply,
Then give them both the lie.
  • Chandler’s shop. John Chandler’s shop suited the neighborhood’s Gothic atmosphere perfectly. It was dark, pungent, and unsettling. A stuffed owl hung from the ceiling, and the toothy jaws of some unfortunate creature were tacked above a diagram of a body with severed and broken limbs, pierced through with weapons. A carpenter’s awl entered the poor fellow’s left eye at a jaunty angle. 
  • Chandler was a witch! Now we're getting somewhere. A stooped man emerged from behind a curtain, wiping his hands on the sleeves of his rusty black bombazine coat. It bore a resemblance to the academic gowns worn by Oxford and Cambridge undergraduates and was just as rumpled. Bright hazel eyes met mine without a trace of hesitation, and my skin tingled with recognition. Chandler was a witch. After crossing most of London, I’d finally located one of my own people 
  • George has some aches and pains! George made a detailed accounting of his many aches and pains. Chandler murmured sympathetically every now and then and drew a ledger closer. 
  • Little veer towards the ditch when we compare the store to a janky Walmart, a Ben Franklin or a Woolworth’s. We are saved of crashing in it because it does explain this text: Elizabethan apothecary shops were evidently the general stores of the period, and the small space was stuffed to the rafters with merchandise. There were piles of vividly illustrated broadsides, like the one of the wounded man tacked up on the wall, and jars of candied fruit. Used books sat on one table, along with a few newer titles. A set of pottery crocks offered a splash of brightness in the otherwise dim room, all of them labeled with the names of medicinal spices and herbs. Specimens from the animal kingdom on display included not only the stuffed owl and jawbone but also some wizened rodents tied up by their tails. I spotted pots of ink, quill pens, and spools of string, too. 
  • The interesting titles to be purchased at Chandler's: [...] book promising not only to help you catch fish but to build “sundrie Engines and trappes to take Polcats, Buzzards, rattes, mice, and all other kindes of Vermin and beasts.” 
  • The pot of red ink. I found a pot of red ink, deep and rich. (silent) Your wearh friend will not appreciate having to carry that bottle home, mistress. It is made from hawk’s blood and is used for writing out love spells. 
  • Herr Stubbe - My eyes raced across the page. I noted with relief that Stubbe lived in far-off Germany. The anxiety returned when I saw that the uncle of one of his victims ran the brewery between our house and Baynard’s Castle. I was aghast at the gruesome details of the killings, as well as the lengths humans would go to in order to cope with the creatures in their midst. Here Stubbe Peter was depicted as a witch, and his strange behavior was attributed to a pact with the devil that made it possible for him to change shape and satisfy his unnatural taste for blood. But it was far more likely that the man was a vampire. I slid the pamphlet underneath my other book and made my way to the counter. 
  • George is completely oblivious!  “My publisher, Master Ponsonby, is worried my eyes will fail me before my translation of Homer is complete,” he explained self-importantly. “I have a receipt from my mother’s servant, but it has not resulted in a cure.”
  • Farewell, Mistress Roydon. “Farewell, Mistress Roydon,” Chandler said with a bow. “Thank you for your assistance, Master Chandler,” I replied. (silent) I am new in town and looking for a witch to help me (/silence). “You are welcome,” he said smoothly, “though there are excellent apothecaries in the Blackfriars.” (silent) London is a dangerous place. Have care from whom you request assistance (/silence).
  • The trip home. The word is out that a witch is out and about. The touch of eyes was unmistakable as we made our progress back to town. An alert had been issued while I was in Chandler’s shop, and word that a strange witch was near had spread throughout the neighborhood. At last I had achieved my objective for the afternoon. Two witches came out onto their front step, arms linked at the elbows, and scrutinized me with tingling hostility. They were so similar in face and body that I wondered if they were twins.

The story of The Werewolf of Bedburg aka Peter Stubbe
* (42:53) - "Ah, home!"
  • We find Matthew stripping down and throwing clothes in the fire! I followed the sound of my husband’s voice. Matthew was still in his study, peeling his clothes off and flinging them into the fire. 
  • Matthew’s tower job. “The queen ordered me to be present when a prisoner was . . . questioned.” His slight hesitation told me that “tortured” was the word he was avoiding. 
  • Matthew sucks at the tides.  “I’d hoped to arrive early enough to stop it—this time—but I miscalculated the tides. All I could do, once again, was insist that his suffering end.” 
  • The Queen was having a witch tortured out of fear. “Who was he?” “A witch,” Matthew said flatly. “His neighbors reported him for having a poppet with red hair. They feared that it was an image of the queen. And the queen feared that the behavior of the Scottish witches, Agnes Sampson and John Fian, was encouraging English witches to act against her. No, Diana.” Matthew gestured for me to stay where I was when I stepped forward to comfort him. “That’s as close as you will ever be to the Tower and what happens there. Go to the parlor. I’ll join you shortly.” 
  • Matthew changes, and joins Diana at the table. “Your appetite is off.” Matthew slipped into the room, silent as a cat, and poured himself some wine. He drank it down in one long draft and replenished the cup. 
  • The Blackfriars, London. “The Blackfriars was once Christian holy ground. Daemons, witches, and vampires got into the habit of living elsewhere long ago and haven’t yet moved back. The Barbican Cross, however, was put up on land where the Jewish cemetery was hundreds of years ago. After the Jews were expelled from England, city officials used the unconsecrated graveyard for criminals, traitors, and excommunicates instead. Humans consider it haunted and avoid the place.” 
  • The reason Jacqueline was being kind of sneaky and mischievous: “Mistress Field did not tell madame that there was an apothecary in the Blackfriars. A few months ago, Monsieur de Laune and Jacqueline disagreed about the best treatment for her eldest son’s putrid throat,” Pierre murmured by way of explanation. “I don’t care if Jacqueline and de Laune pulled swords on each other in the nave of St. Paul’s at the stroke of noon. Diana isn’t to go traipsing across the city.” 
  • Yeah, Dad. Whatever. 😒😑🙄 
  • KIT! 😠 “Yes. I didn’t know that news of his death had traveled this far. Kit’s supposed to tell me about the gossip in the broadsides and popular press so we can cover it up if necessary. Somehow he missed this.” Matthew shot a grim look at Pierre. “Make sure someone else is assigned to the job, and don’t let Kit know.” Pierre tilted his head in acknowledgment. 
  • The legends about vampires. Matthew describes the timeline of human fear. “Don’t be too hard on them, Diana. They’re focused on witches at the moment. It will be the daemons’ turn in another hundred years or so, thanks to the reform of the asylums. After that, humans will get around to vampires, and witches will be nothing more than a wicked fairy tale to frighten children.” 
  • Don’t worry about me, take care of you! Matthew behaves himself with his response. We're proud of him! “Our next-door neighbor is preoccupied with werewolves, not witches. And if you could be mistaken for one, I want you to stop worrying about me and start taking care of yourself. Besides, it shouldn’t be long now before a witch knocks on our door.” I clung to the certainty that it would be dangerous for Matthew to look any further for a witch. My husband’s eyes flashed a warning, but his mouth remained closed until his anger was under control 
  • A witch will come. “Listen to me. A witch will come. I promise.”
* (50:31)  Housekeeping! Brought to you by Ruth Ticknor! – 5 star apple podcast review from MissMarlu! A question from new Discusser Chelsea! Thank you! Gallowglass’s bookmark (by Maro Hogan) can be downloaded here. Also, thank you, Nancy, for your message from Canada!

* (56:05) Save it for the show - we welcome Cait from Chamomile and Clove! We discuss their approach to this story, and discover what amatuer lit-crit with a dash of squeeing entails! Find them on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher & TuneIn (+ so many other places!). Find them on Facebook & Twitter

* (1:08:52)  Promo break – scroll down, or click here to get a hold of us and/or become a Discusser -- information on joining our Facebook group also located on that page. Those of you with US numbers can text ADOW to 444999 to become a Discusser.

* (1:10:00) - Last thoughts: Jean explains why she’s kind of tired of readers pointing out discrepancies in TWOAS. Angela brings up a quote by Andrea Mitchell that was used during a commencement speech; she thought was a fitting quote for Matthew’s rebirthday. Valerie has a bunch of mini-housekeeping notes: All Souls Con is sold out, join our Facebook group (see below). The thing she can’t let go of: thoughts on the Time’s Convert ARC.

All Souls Con 2018

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