Thursday, October 12, 2017

Daemons Discuss - Podcast: Take 23! | Chapter Discussion about the All Souls Trilogy; Ch 35 - 38 of A Discovery of Witches

A Daemon-corrupted (photo manipulated) slide from Dr. Shelli's presentation 😈

Take 23 - The One With the Vampire Scientists (feat. Dr. Shelli Carter)

Description: ADOW ch 35-38 - Settled into the Bishop house, Matthew Clairmont and Diana Bishop are faced with many problems: avoiding the wrath of the congregation, making sense of Diana's magical limitations, and figuring out the meaning of the wayward page from Ashmole 782 that the house delivered to them in chapter 34.

We soon realize that the pairing of Diana and Matthew may not just be fate -- it could be necessary for species survival! In the midst of this discussion, the Daemons attempt to navigate through a chapter that has always been a bit of an enigma for them; they dip their toes in the murky waters of genealogy (with some guidance from the fandom's favorite real-life vampire scientist -- Dr. Shelli Carter -- who joins in as a fourth for this chapter block).

We also get a taste of the 'war' Miriam speaks of -- ENTER JULIETTE! After sampling what their common enemies have in store for them, Matthew and Diana plot an alternate course for their future.

SPOILER ALERT! We (The Daemons) approach this podcast with an assumption that the listener has read The All Souls Trilogy, including A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night, and The Book of Life.  If you haven't, and you don't mind, we certainly don't mind!  😊  Let's do this.
*Note - this podcast is labeled 'explicit'


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1. Show notes:

For newcomers to the series:- We'll start with the basics: The books in discussion are A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night and The Book of Life.  Together they make The All Souls Trilogy by Deborah Harkness.
- Our Daemon Guides to the All Souls Trilogy are available for download: ADOW, SON, TBOL

Deb's newsletter - The Blast; subscribe on her website
- If you'd like a ready-reference from the author herself, be sure to download the All Souls Real-Time Reading companion (free e-book at online booksellers via Penguin and Headline books).
- Deborah Harkness usually conducts a real-time reading on her Facebook Page (starting in September), and shares her posts across social media. Check out her website for all of her social media links, and of course all that she has to offer her readers! Be sure to sign up for her newsletter while you are there!
- To see what's available on the web as far as the All Souls universe fandom, check our links page.

In this episode:
* (2:08) – Thank you Discussers Stephen, Kate and Angela! Full emails can be found here.

* (3:55) – Jean and Angela’s theme song for Baldwin: Seven Nation Army by The White Stripes.

a. Chapter 35
* (5:15) – Stephen Proctor’s hint(s?!) with the Einstein quote included in the package. Einstein and Special Relativity; Minkowski’s theory on Time/Space.

* (9:58) – The passage that reminds Jean of Rebecca and Stephen. She goes on to say that she suspects that maybe Stephen was time traveling to find Rebecca, and how the mother of understanding and blessed hope could actually be Rebecca (mind BLOWN). YIKES.
“‘Attend to me, all people, and listen to me, all who inhabit the world: my beloved, who is red, has called to me. He sought, and found me. I am the flower of the field, a lily growing in the valley. I am the mother of true love, and of fear, and of understanding, and blessed hope.’”
* (13:22) – Shelli wants to know why Sarah didn’t guess that Diana was spellbound. Valerie counters with the notion that Sarah is a bit stubborn and has had her mind made up regarding Diana’s lack of ability to perform magic. An afterthought as we type these show notes, Sarah being a witch's witch, would assume such a taboo (spell-binding) being performed on someone so close to her would not be able to happen without her knowledge (pure conjecture on our part). Sarah does assume a lot of things.

* (15:35) – Stephen Proctor bound the book so only Diana can access it. Some theories are discussed here with the prominent one being that Stephen engineered (along with Philippe) the pairing of these two creatures (Matthew and Diana). Shelli points out that Philippe set up the congregation with subtle loophole so that a non-vampire de Clermont can serve. Anyway, the conversation was good. You can read, or you can listen. We suggest you listen (of course we do)!

* (19:23) – The DAMN TEA + we discuss Diana’s default coping mechanism.

* (21:35) – How to feed your vampire!
“Is there anything at all that you would eat?” Em wasn’t used to people refusing her food.
 “Nuts,” I said firmly. “If you have to buy him food, get him nuts.”
 Em hesitated. “What about raw meat?”
 Matthew grabbed my hand and squeezed it before I could reply. “If you want to feed me, uncooked meat would be just fine. I like broth, too—plain, no vegetables.”
* (21:54) – The ugly American! The pompous European! They do find common ground . . .
“Don’t be so prim, Diana. Besides, it’s a bit late for that when it was you  who sent the book back.” Sarah stood, her eyes brightening. “Let’s see if the cookbook can help.”
 “Well, well,” Em said under her breath. “You’re one of the family now, Matthew.”
* (29:10) – The grimoire and the Bishop family lineage
“The Bishop grimoire.” She pointed to the first name. “It first belonged to Rebecca Davies, Bridget Bishop’s grandmother, then to her mother, Rebecca Playfer. Bridget handed the book down to her first daughter, born out of wedlock in England around 1650. Bridget was still in her teens at the time, and she named her daughter after her mother and grandmother. Unable to care for the girl, Bridget gave her up to a family in London. ” Sarah made a soft sound of disgust. “The rumors of her immorality haunted her for the rest of her life. Later her daughter Rebecca joined her and worked in her mother’s tavern. Bridget was on her second husband then, and had another daughter named Christian.”
* (30:49) – Marcus and Miriam arrive!

* (31:15) – Shelli wonders why Marcus wouldn’t tell Diana about the fact Marcus had met a member of her family? Jean said because Matthew is a grade-A crank!

* (32:16) – Sarah on the subject of humans and their lack of awareness.
Sarah stood and examined the newest members of the household, both of whom glowed. The stillroom’s subdued light only accentuated their unnatural paleness and the startling effect of their dilated pupils. “Goddess save us, how does anyone think you’re human?”
 “It’s always been a mystery to me,” Miriam said, studying Sarah with equal interest.
b. Chapter 36
We’ve got NOTHING! Shelli helps us through this chapter (some of these markers have no notes, just time stamps for audio reference):
  • (33:40) – Africa
  • (36:20) – VTS (Vanishing Twin Syndrome)
  • (37:36) – Chimeras
  • (39:00) – Sheilding/Protecting a potential mate/attraction to a potential mate
  • (40:21) – AB-positive blood type and the significance of it. First editions say “AB-negative”, this has been corrected in subsequent editions SEE BELOW (time stamp:[1:35:12])
  • (41:07) – The spade foot toad - update 25 Oct 17 - Shelli thought of us, and shared this article w/ us referring to the spade foot toad: Study sheds light on relationship between environment, hormones and evolution

The opening slide from Shelli's All Souls Con presentation
* (42:20) – Clans and mtLilith – Shelli was kind enough to provide us the power point presentation that she used in the talk at All Souls Con. You can download her PowerPoint presentation <--here. We will also keep this in our downloads section for your future reference.

* (40:17) – How many?
“How many other creatures have been in the same position as you and Matthew, over the years?” wondered Marcus.
 “How many are there now?” Miriam added.
* (41:57) – Again with THE DAMN TEA!
“That tea that Diana and what’s-her-name—Marthe—made in France. It’s full of abortifacients and contraceptive herbs. I smelled them the moment the tin was open.”
 “Did you know?” Matthew’s face was white with fury.
 “No,” I whispered. “But no harm was done.”
 Matthew stood. He pulled his phone from his pocket, avoiding my eyes. “Please excuse me,” he said to Em and Sarah before striding out of the room.
* (43:18) – Jean wonders if the house is the Goddess’ tool?

* (45:15) – Gillian’s death
“I just don’t know if I can handle this, Diana,” she whispered when she took the mug. “Marcus explained what Gillian and Peter Knox had planned. But when I think of Barbara Chamberlain and what she must be feeling now that her daughter is dead—” Em shuddered to a stop.
* (45:40) – GET OUT!
“I want you all out of my house.” Sarah pushed her chair back. “You, too, Diana.
* (46:11) – The children talk + Shelli’s defense of Marthe with the DAMN TEA
“And what about you?” he asked, his fingers on my chin to keep me from avoiding his eyes. “Do you want to carry my children?”
 “I never imagined myself a mother.” A shadow flickered across his face. “But when I think of your children, it feels as though it was meant to be.”
* (48:17) – Three witches and three vampires share a secret
“How strange,” Marcus murmured, his eyes sweeping the room. “First it was a shared secret. Now three witches and three vampires have pledged loyalty to one another. If we had a trio of daemons, we’d be a shadow Congregation.”
c. Chapter 37
* (48:48) – Fast food for vampires, vampire vegetarians, vampire’s taste in blood.
The very next day Marcus and Miriam had a conversation with Matthew in the driveway, then left in the Range Rover. Several hours later they returned bearing a small refrigerator marked with a red cross and enough blood and medical supplies to outfit an army field hospital. At Matthew’s request, Sarah selected a corner of the stillroom to serve as the blood bank.
* (51:20) – The birth control (will that even work?), and Jean talks about the veil of Veronica (referring to the book Memnoch the Devil by Anne Rice), because of the subject matter being discussed.

* (52:08) – Nightly scrabble, vampire classes, and film noir . . .
Sarah, Marcus, and Miriam shared a fondness for film noir, which now dominated the house’s TV-viewing schedule. Sarah had discovered this happy coincidence when, during one of her habitual bouts of insomnia, she went downstairs in the middle of the night and found Miriam and Marcus watching Out of the Past. The three also shared a love of Scrabble and popcorn.
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn and cauldron bubble. . . .
     ~ Macbeth, Act IV, Scene I - [Round about the cauldron go]
* (53:23) – Potion brewing, Macbeth-style
Matthew joined Sarah and Marcus in the most unholy trio of potion brewers since Shakespeare put three witches around a cauldron. The vapor Sarah and Matthew brewed up for the picture of the chemical wedding hadn’t revealed anything, but this didn’t deter them. They occupied the stillroom at all hours, consulting the Bishop grimoire and making strange concoctions that smelled bad, exploded, or both.
* (54:01) – Knights of Lazarus 101
“What’s a marshal?” The toast sprang out and winged its way to the kitchen island when my stomach rumbled.
 “Matthew’s chief military officer.” Miriam eyed the refrigerator door, which was opening without visible assistance.
* (56:19) – What Valerie was talking about in The Book of Life – it remains unclear as to who compelled her to protect Matthew. Was it Philippe or Bertrand? The jury is out.
“That was Miriam’s idea,” Gallowglass admitted. Miriam had been protecting Matthew for centuries, just as he had been looking after Diana. “As soon as she saw the test results Miriam knew that Matthew would need his son at his side.”
* (57:44) – The evening walk that went sideways
“You smell like fresh air and wood smoke,” he said, nuzzling my hair.
 There was an anomaly in the forest, felt rather than seen. It was a bending of the fading light, a sense of momentum, an aura of dark intention. My head swiveled over my shoulder.
 “Someone’s here,” I said.
* (58:44) – That Instagram cartoon (by @orbinell) -- so simple, but it says so much:

That fun cartoon from @orbinell on Instagram
* (1:59:19) – Juliette . . . it is the overall consensus that this woman was extremely broken
' '[...] But Gerbert insisted, so that I could please you. And I did please you, didn’t I?” Juliette’s attention was fixed on Matthew, and her voice was as rough as the fault lines in her broken mind.'
* (1:00:45) – Shelli: “why didn’t Marcus just get off of the phone?!”
Gerbert counted on your forgetting about Juliette. It had been so long. And he knew you’d be with Diana when she struck. He gloated about it on the phone.”
* (1:01:33) – The deal with the Goddess
“Help me,” I begged.
 There will be a price, the young huntress said.
 “I will pay it.”
 Don’t make a promise to the goddess lightly, daughter, the old woman murmured with a shake of her head. You’ll have to keep it.
 “Take anything—take anyone. But leave me him.”
 The huntress considered my offer and nodded. He is yours.
* (1:02:35) – The family witnesses Diana (and the Goddess) saving Matthew.
Sarah always had two blades on her, one dull and black-handled, the other sharp and white-handled. At my call the white blade cut through her belt and flew at me point first. Sarah put up a hand to call it back, and I imagined a wall of blackness and fire between me and the surprised faces of my family. The white-handled knife sliced easily through the blackness and floated gently down near my bent right knee. Matthew’s head lolled as I released him just enough to grasp the hilt.
 Turning his face gently toward mine, I kissed his mouth long and hard. His eyes fluttered open. He looked so tired, and his skin was gray.
 “Don’t worry, my love. I’m going to fix it.” I raised the knife.
* (1:03:03) – Jean talks mortality here (you should probably listen! Your head will explode…again)

d. Chapter 38
* (1:05:50) – The Juliette conversation
“If I do keep secrets, I won’t be the only one doing so in this family. Tell me about Juliette Durand.”
 He let go of my chin and moved restlessly to the window. “You know that Gerbert introduced us. He kidnapped her from a Cairo brothel, brought her to the brink of death over and over again before transforming her into a vampire, and then shaped her into someone I would find appealing. I still don’t know if she was insane when Gerbert found her or if her mind broke after what he did to her.”

* (1:06:18) – We were troubled by the fact that Matthew loved someone like Juliette; he gets obsessive and carried away with things. It shows an entirely different side of Matthew. Here’s what they were up to:
“How have you resisted her, Matthew?” She took a long, slow breath. “The smell of her should drive you mad with hunger. Do you remember that frightened young woman we stalked in Rome? She smelled rather like this one, I think.”
* (1:08:00) – Shelli points out Matthew's issues with dominance and self-loathing.

* (1:09:25) – Ysabeau, Baldwin and Marcus did not approve of Juliette at all.
Baldwin and Ysabeau never trusted her, and Marcus detested her. But I—Gerbert taught her well.
Lady's mantle
* (1:10:40) – Ambergris and lady’s mantle. Ambergris is associated with the goddess, and lady’s mantle is associated with the blessed mother. Jean’s theory is that the ambergris and lady's mantle was sort of a push to get Matthew to give in to his urges for survival.
“You used magic to save me. I could smell it—lady’s mantle and ambergris.”
 “It was nothing.” I didn’t want him to know what I’d promised in exchange for his life.
* (1:11:55) – Emily explains Sarah’s reaction
“This has nothing to do with Matthew. You offered your blood to a vampire—a desperate, dying vampire.” She silenced my protests with a look. “I know he’s not just any vampire. Even so, Matthew could kill you. And Sarah’s devastated that she can’t teach you how to control your talents.”
* (1:12:40) – That goddess story from Ysabeau – Shelli says we may have already gotten the story ... well ... maybe?
“So the goddess saved my son,” she murmured. “She has a sense of justice, as well as humor. But that is too long a tale for today. When you are next at Sept-Tours, I will tell you.”
* (1:14:35) – They are going to time-walk.
“What we need is time,” he said thoughtfully.
 “The Congregation isn’t likely to give us that.”
 “We’ll take it, then.” His voice was almost inaudible. “We’ll timewalk.”
* (1:15:10) Housekeeping! – Answers to Stephen’s question: What part of the trilogy makes you well up (get misty, emotional, makes your allergies flare up, etc.), Thanks Patricia, Shelli, Allysa, and NE Angela for answering! Thank you, Stephen for asking the question!

* (1:17:30) Save It For the Show… Topic – Baldwin’s new apparent popularity! We contemplate on the overall fandom change in attitude. Angela and Jean first bonded over Baldwin. Shelli says we had no one to blame for this but ourselves with our empathy panel. Jean wants to work the same magic with Kit, but Shelli and Valerie remain skeptical. Shelli wonders about character POV in the television series shaping the fandom (secondary characters may gain more fans). We also discuss Sophie Miles tweeting the fact that she’s joining the cast (outside of official announcements; the tweet has been deleted, but we don't think she's in trouble! 😛) Here is Deb's tweet referring to her joining the cast:

* (1:26:13) Promo breakscroll down, or click here to get a hold of us and/or become a Discusser -- information on joining our Facebook group also located on that page.

* (1:27:33) – Last thoughts! Angela mentions a song on Matthew’s playlist (which she’s loved forever, and along with Jean tweeted it to Deb before the The Book of Life was released). The song is by Kings of Leon: “Family Tree” -- listen to that song while reading Ransome’s chapter in The book of Life. Jean brings up Kyme from Bohemienne Life and says she is coming out with a Ransome scent “Bourbon and Pheromones” aka Bourbon and sex. Shelli can’t let go of the fact that she’s received such a great reception in the All Souls fandom after her panel at All Souls Con, and wonders what she can do to live up to the praise. Val brings up the niggling scene in Take 22 and Philippe’s study, and the Daemons and Shelli discuss it further. Val’s last thought? She loves that the Daemon’s people are SO their people. So much so, that no one had a problem typing in the 'word' to join the Daemonic Discussers FB group.
* (1:35:12) – AB-POSITIVE is the correct answer per Deb (see here, and here), but contrary to what we told you, "AB-negative" does appear in some of the newer prints of A Discovery of Witches. In some copies, chapter 13 would show "AB-negative," then the same book would display "AB-positive" in chapter 36! We wouldn't have known had we not checked our prize closets, and peeked in some of the newest books in our stacks. After the first edition prints were released, we were told (in early 2012) that all subsequent editions would be corrected to say AB-positive -- we've been taking that as fact, but it isn't. We stand corrected!

A later printing of A Discovery of Witches with the AB-negative mistake!
Previous Episode
Bonus Edition! It Begins With Absinthe and Disaster

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* Intro music: "Ghost Dance" (edited down to second chorus) by Kevin Macleod, licensed for use by Creative Commons.
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