Thursday, October 26, 2017

Daemons Discuss - Podcast: Take 24! | Chapter Discussion about the All Souls Trilogy; Ch 39-43 of A Discovery of Witches - The End!

A little vampire and a little witch! Photo/crochet pattern/tutorial by HOOKSANDHABITS, image from Pinterest
Take 24 - The One With the Unexpected Visitors

Description: Endings, beginnings, change . . . we close the chapters of A Discovery of Witches. But first we observe Diana Bishop and Matthew Clairmont meeting Sophie and Nathaniel, and contemplate what their sudden unexpected appearance might mean. Later on, Hamish completes the conventicle, and with his leadership, the Bishop-Clairmont gang lay out a road map for their collective futures. From Sarah's famous scrambled eggs to quiet vows taken in a (mostly) empty house, this episode touches all of the events between. Together we lifted our feet . . .

SPOILER ALERT! We (The Daemons) approach this podcast with an assumption that the listener has read The All Souls Trilogy, including A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night, and The Book of Life.  If you haven't, and you don't mind, we certainly don't mind!  ๐Ÿ˜Š  Let's do this.
*Note - this podcast is labeled 'explicit'

Download .Mp3 of this episode

1. Show notes:

For newcomers to the series:- We'll start with the basics: The books in discussion are A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night and The Book of Life.  Together they make The All Souls Trilogy by Deborah Harkness.
- Our Daemon Guides to the All Souls Trilogy are available for download: ADOW, SON, TBOL

Deb's newsletter - The Blast; subscribe on her website
- If you'd like a ready-reference from the author herself, be sure to download the All Souls Real-Time Reading companion (free e-book at online booksellers via Penguin and Headline books).
- Deborah Harkness usually conducts a real-time reading on her Facebook Page (starting in September), and shares her posts across social media. Check out her website for all of her social media links, and of course all that she has to offer her readers! Be sure to sign up for her newsletter while you are there!
- To see what's available on the web as far as the All Souls universe fandom, check our links page.

In this episode:
* (00:40) – Yes! It was Friday the 13th of October 2017 when we recorded this. In real-time reading, it happened to be 'Baldwin Day' (yay for our #TeamBaldwin Daemons!), annnnnd ...  The Knights Templar reference is because on the 13th of October, 1307 (710 years ago - we even did the math! ๐Ÿค“), Philip IV of France ordered all of the French knights to be rounded up; included was the Templar’s grand Master, Jacques de Molay. Many were eventually tortured into false confession for the charges, which included heresy, homosexuality, financial corruption, devil worshiping, fraud, spitting on the cross and more. A few years later, dozens were executed (burned at the stake) in 1314 (Angela's fire emoji reference ๐Ÿ”ฅ. . . too soon?). Read a short synopsis here: The Knights Templar

* (02:06) – We solicited answers from our Facebook group this time. Thank you Teresa, Caroline, New England Angela & Wendy!

a. Chapter 39
* (8:20) – Sarah took this whole time-walking thing the best.
Of all the creatures in the room, she was the calmest. “You’ll take her to a time when she’ll be with witches who will help her?”
 Sarah closed her eyes for a moment, then opened them. “You two aren’t safe here. Juliette Durand proved that. And if you aren’t safe in Madison, you aren’t safe anywhere.”
* (08:42) – They go to review the scene … Jean thinks it needed to be done, Angela mentions the crossroads points out that it is sacred ground. Valerie mentioned the oak tree and the goddess doing her thing.
“I didn’t know Juliette, but at that moment I hated her enough to kill her.” Her brown-and-green eyes would always haunt me from shadows under the trees.
 I traced the line left by the arc of conjured fire to where the maiden and the crone had agreed to help me save Matthew. I looked up into the oak tree and gasped.
* (09:19) – The house has added some rooms. Emily talks to Diana silently -- she had before, but it had just occurred to Valerie that they do it regularly, and she wonders if there is a frequency to tap into when you address another witch? Is it like a phone number? ☎️
Em appeared, a puzzled expression on her face. “Are we expecting visitors? The house thinks we are.”
 “You’re joking!” I said. “The house hasn’t added a room since the last family reunion. Where is it?”
 “Between the bathroom and the junk room.” Em pointed at the ceiling.  I told you this wasn’t just about you and Matthew, she said silently to me as we trooped upstairs to view the transformation. My premonitions are seldom wrong.
Promo picture for A&E's Storage Wars
* (10:37) – Magical POD storage? Lol! Jean brings up Storage Wars
“Where did it all come from?” Miriam asked in amazement.
 “Who knows where the house keeps this stuff?” Sarah sat on the bed and bounced on it vigorously. It responded with a series of outraged squeaks.
* (12:48) – Angela compare’s Sarah’s surrender (allowing Diana to travel to the past), to her surrender to admitting her son needed a tutor for Common Core math; read Old Standards vs. Common Core 

*  (13:15) – Of course Matthew isn’t a thing! Angela points out that in Shadow of Night, Goody Alsop pretty much said the same thing by declaring he had a soul.
“Do I count as a thing?” he asked her.
 “Do you have a pulse? Of course you’re not a thing!” It was one of the most positive statements Sarah had ever made about vampires.
*  (13:34) – Marcus’ necklace
“If you need old stuff to guide your way, you’re welcome to these.” Marcus pulled a thin leather cord from the neck of his shirt and lifted it over his head. It was festooned with a bizarre assortment of items, including a tooth,  a coin, a lump of something that shone black and gold, and a battered silver whistle. He tossed it to Matthew.
The Reign of Terror (or 'The Terrors')
*  (13:53) – Fanny in Paris?! The Terrors? See The Reign of Terror
“How about Paris? One of Fanny’s earbobs is on there.”
 Matthew’s fingers touched a tiny red stone set in gold filigree. “Philippe and I sent you away from Paris, and Fanny, too. They called it the Terror, remember? It’s no place for Diana.”
*  (14:28) – Matthew wouldn’t trust his past self with Diana . . . Hamish does warn her (later!)
“We?” I’d asked in surprise. “Won’t I just meet you there?”
 “Not unless there’s no alternative. I wasn’t the same creature then, and I wouldn’t entirely trust my past selves with you.”
Albert Einstein and Michele Besso
*  (15:20) – The science of time walking. “Past, present & future as a persistent illusion” – When Albert Einstein's friend, Michele Besso passed away, Einstein included that quote in a famous letter to Michele’s widow.
Matthew sensed my apprehension and took my hand in his. “Einstein said that all physicists were aware that the distinctions between past, present, and future were only what he called ‘a stubbornly persistent illusion.’ Not only did he believe in marvels and wonders, he also believed in the elasticity of time.”
*  (16:45) – Nathaniel and Sophie show up . . .
“Is there something we can do for you?” Matthew sounded cold, though polite.
 “My name is Nathaniel Wilson, and this is my wife, Sophie. We were told we might find Diana Bishop here.”
*  (19:09) – Seven Devils, North Carolina  (crossroads?) "The name of Seven Devils is always intriguing; the story of the unique name is that the natives said the wind blowing across these hills in the wintertime sounds like seven devils screaming in the night. And the name stuck!"
“My granny’s house was just the same.” Sophie smiled. “She lived in the old Norman place in Seven Devils. That’s where I’m from. It’s officially part  of North Carolina, but my dad said that nobody bothered to tell the folks in town. We’re kind of a nation unto ourselves.”
*  (19:45) – The face jugs (also mentioned: Toby mugs)

*  (20:16) – Sophie’s baby is a witch
“They could be my dreams, or they could be hers.” Sophie gazed at her belly as Sarah led her and Nathaniel deeper into the house. She looked back over her shoulder at Matthew. “She’s a witch, you see. That’s probably what worried Nathaniel’s mom.”
*  (21:01) – Matthew retains his suspicions.
Matthew held me back. “There’s something too convenient about their showing up right now. No mention of timewalking in front of them.”
 “They’re harmless.” Every instinct confirmed it.
 “Nobody’s harmless, and that certainly goes for Agatha Wilson’s son.” Tabitha, who was sitting next to Matthew, mewled in agreement.
*  (22:19) -- Em's Vampire nuts, as shared by Deb Harkness.

Em’s Famous Vanilla Vampire Walnuts*
Serves: 16 warmbloods or 1 vampire


1 pound of shelled nuts (walnuts are traditional, Southern vampires may like some pecans, Spanish vampires like almonds, and a mixture is fine! Em doesn’t recommend cashews for this recipe as they are quick to burn)
½ cup granulated sugar
2 ½ Tbsp.vegetable oil (not olive oil—something flavorless)
1 Tbsp. Vanilla extract
¼ tsp. salt
¼ tsp. ground coriander
¼ tsp. cinnamon
¼ tsp. nutmeg

Spell/ Method:

1. Preheat oven to 325 degrees F/160 degrees C/Gas Mark 3
2. Blend the oil with the vanilla extract.
3. Blanch the nuts for 1 minute in boiling water. Drain. While still hot, put in a bowl with the oil/vanilla mixture and the sugar. Let stand for 10 mins. It will make your kitchen smell like a bakery!
4. Arrange on a baking sheet. Using one with a rim will keep your nuts from driving you nuts! Bake for 30-35 minutes, turning and stirring them every 5-10 mins until the nuts are brown and crispy. Watch for burning—they can go from brown to burned in 30 seconds! You may find you need to remove them at around the 20 minute mark if your oven runs hot. Be careful handling them, as they will be very hot because of the sugar!
5. While nuts are in the oven, combine the salt,coriander, cinnamon, and nutmeg in a large bowl. Tip the baked nuts into the bowl and toss with the spices. Spread in a single layer to cool (they will get crispier as they cool). Store in an airtight container.
These nuts are good for: garnishing cakes and cupcakes, chopping up and putting on Sarah’s oatmeal, snacking, serving to vampires in lieu of cookies, and as a salad topping. Diana likes them in an arugula salad with goat cheese and some pomegranate seeds.

*This recipe was adapted from The Frog Commissary Cookbook by Steven Poses, Anne Clark, Becky Roller.

Printable version stored in our downloads section --> here

*  (23:17) – Communication is a good skill in preparation for marriage -- no one told Sophie that!
“We didn’t tell Agatha my people were witches. I didn’t even tell Nathaniel—not until he came home to meet my dad. We’d been together for almost four years, and my dad was sick and losing control over his magic. I didn’t want Nathaniel spooked.
*  (23:52) – The chess piece.
“It’s a chess piece,” Matthew’s voice broke. “The white queen.”
“How do you know that?” Sarah looked at the figurine critically. “It’s not like any chess piece I ever saw.”
Matthew had to force the words out from behind tight lips. “Because it was once mine. My father gave it to me.”
*  (24:40) – All Souls, All Saints ... all wha?! Ok. We were confused when this actually happened (the night of the chess happened the night of All Souls) … but here's what we found: The origins of All Souls and All Saints, also, there's our Weekly Geek on the same subject.

*  (26:29) – Miriam! YIKES! She brings up the time walking . . .
“That’s next week.” Miriam shifted in her seat so that she could meet Sarah’s eyes. “Would timewalking be easier around the feasts of All Saints and All Souls?”
“Miriam,” Matthew snarled, but it was too late.
“What’s timewalking?” Nathaniel whispered to Sophie.
*  (27:10) – Diana will be the baby’s godmother.
“Sure you’ll be ready,” Sophie crooned to her belly. “She’ll make things right for you, little witch. You’ll be her godmother,” Sophie said with a radiant smile. “She’ll like that.”
An example of a poppet (there are many styles, BTW!)
*  (27:30) – Bridget’s poppet:
“I’ve never seen such an old poppet,” said Sophie, peering down at it.
“Poppet?” Miriam frowned. “Didn’t one of your ancestors get in trouble over a poppet?”
*  (28:00) – Nathaniel’s ‘mansplaining’
 “She’s tired,” Nathaniel said apologetically, his hands tightening on his wife’s shoulders. “It makes it difficult for her to focus.”
*  (28:43) – We are just a trio of Gen X’rs (the MTV generation!) trying to make sense of things, Millennials. Don't take it to heart! Some of our favorite people are Millennials . . . #Truth

*  (29:26) – The herbs in the poppet:
Clover, broom, knotweed, and slippery elm bark, too, from the smell of it.” Sarah gave the air a good sniff. “That poppet was made to draw someone—Diana, presumably—but it’s got a protection spell on it, too.”
b. Chapter 40
*  (30:53) – Sarah’s pumpkin carving.
She bit her lip, regarding her work critically. “I’m not sure the eyes are right.”
I laughed. “At least it has eyes. Sometimes Sarah can’t be bothered and just pokes three round holes in the side with the end of a screwdriver and calls it a day.”
We suspect this pumpkin was carved by a firearm . . . Sarah used a screwdriver to stab carve her pumpkins (the violence!).
*  (31:19) – Nathaniel (and Marcus) are slightly upset with Matthew’s planning.
Marcus and Nathaniel had exchanged a long look when Matthew finished his announcement, which concluded with the daemon shaking his head and pressing his lips together and the younger vampire staring fixedly at the table while a muscle in his jaw throbbed.
*  (34:06) – The shots! Valerie and Jean cringe, Angela wasn’t thinking about the needles – she was devouring the history lesson!
Matthew opened up the sealed pouch holding the two-pronged smallpox inoculator. “Do you know what Thomas Jefferson wrote to Edward Jenner about this vaccine?” he asked, voice hypnotic. “Jefferson said it was medicine’s most useful discovery.” 
*  (35:56) – The house adds yet another room . . . for who? HAMISH!
“It’s not a delivery, and they’re not here yet. But the house is ready for them.” She disappeared into the laundry room.
“Another room? Where did the house put this one?” Sarah shouted after her.
*  (37:22) – The conventicle!
“We’re a proper conventicle now, Sarah,” Sophie observed as she reached for the pyramid of freshly baked cookies on the kitchen island. “All nine—three witches, three daemons, and three vampires—present and accounted for.”
*  (37:49) – Val kind of goes a bit batsh!t here with wayward Christopher Roberts memories. Calm down, Valerie! More during The Book of Life read! Stay tuned!

*  (38:58) – Angela mentions that Baldwin has been cut out of the info loop (yet AGAIN!)

*  (39:45) – Jean says this was Ysabeau being the secret weapon . . .
“While visiting with your mother, who was far more willing to answer my questions than you would have been, I learned that you wanted a few things from home. It seemed a shame for Alain to make such a long trip,  when I was already going to come and ask you what the hell you were up to.”
*  (41:53) – Diana & Matthew tell their tale.
With that, Matthew took a deep breath and plunged in. He included everything—Ashmole 782, the Knights of Lazarus, the break-ins at Oxford, Satu and what happened at La Pierre, even Baldwin’s fury.
*  (44:16) – Sophie’s about to be dragged out of there by Nathaniel, and Sophie confesses:
“They’ll come for us, Nathaniel. I’ve seen it.” Sophie’s voice was purposeful, and her face had the same sudden sharpness that Agatha Wilson’s had back in Oxford.
*  (44:25) – The heads of the families and knights convene.
“To hell with protocol,” Hamish snapped, banging his fist on the table. “Everybody out of this room except Matthew, Marcus, and Nathaniel. Please,” he added as an afterthought.
“Why do we have to leave?” Sarah asked suspiciously.
Hamish studied my aunt for a moment. “You’d better stay, too.”
*  (44:52) – Miriam keeps score!
“What are you doing, Miriam?” Sophie asked.
“Keeping score,” Miriam said, making another mark on the page.
“What are they talking about? And who’s winning?” I asked, envious of her ability to hear the conversation.
“They’re planning a war, Diana. As for who’s winning, either Matthew or Hamish—it’s too close to call,” Miriam replied. “Marcus and Nathaniel managed to get in a few good shots, though, and Sarah’s holding her own.”
The Tyger by William Blake
*  (45:10) – “Are you sure of him?”
“‘Tiger, tiger, burning bright / In the forests of the night,’” Hamish said, quoting William Blake. “That poem has always reminded me of him.”
I rested my knife on the cutting board and faced him. “What’s on your mind, Hamish?”
“Are you certain of him, Diana?” he asked. Em wiped her hands on her apron and left the room, giving me a sad look.
c. Chapter 41
*  (45:38) – Hamish being lawyerly!
Hamish called us into the dining room in the late morning. We straggled in carrying wineglasses and mugs. He looked as though he hadn’t slept. Neat stacks of paper were arranged across the table’s expanse, along with sticks of black wax and two seals belonging to the Knights of Lazarus—one small, one large. My heart hit my stomach and bounced back into my throat.
*  (46:21) – Diana hits the lotto!
There was too much to absorb. Staggering sums of money, a town house on an exclusive square in London, a flat in Paris, a villa outside Rome, the Old Lodge, a house in Jerusalem, still more houses in cities like Venice and Seville, jets, cars—my mind whirled.
*  (48:11) – Daemons in the brotherhood?
“You can’t keep making daemons like Hamish and Nathaniel members of the brotherhood! How is Nathaniel going to fight?” Miriam sounded aghast.
*  (48:57) – The daemons all leave ... we kind of goofed that up! After the daemons left, we said only Matthew, Diana, Sarah & Em remained, but Marcus and Miriam were there too.

*  (49:04) – The walk back to Sept-Tours.
At last we made it to Matthew’s study. The room was just as we’d left it, with the fire lit and an unlabeled bottle of wine waiting on the table.
I dropped the books and the pen on the sofa, shaking with fatigue.
“What’s wrong?” Matthew asked.
“It was as if too many pasts were coming together, and it was impossible to wade through them. I was afraid you might let go.”
“Nothing felt different to me,” Matthew said. “It took a bit longer than before, but I expected that, given the time and distance.”
*  (49:42) – The timey-wimey stuff . . . there are several theories out there concerning time travel.  Deb used the "multiverse" theory. Essentially in terms of time, the theory is that there are parallel timelines with different events and outcomes. There are several books and articles covering this, but for a couple of us, some simplistic diagrams from the book, The Illustrated Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking, helped in understanding how the timelines worked. Time travel can make your head spin! If you are not a time-travel enthusiast and thinking about it makes you dizzy, then no worries! Use the following to help you out:

Click to enlarge - Images from "The Illustrated Brief History of Time"
*   (50:37) – Sarah and Em’s escape plan!

Sarah and Em's zig-zag escape plan! (*Note from Val: Points are not precise; I think I got New Mexico not Arizona. Meh!)
*   (51:40) – Matthew teases Marcus:
Matthew teased Marcus about his disastrous real-estate deals in the nineteenth century, the enormous investments he’d made in new technologies in the twentieth century that had never panned out, and his perpetual weakness for redheaded women.
“I knew I liked you.” Sarah smoothed down her own unruly red mop and poured him more whiskey.
d. Chapter 42

Deb's Inspiration for Ysabeau's "scribble ring" - read her post here
*   (52:43) – The Trick or Treaters! We love this scene! Angela's photo of her little vampire and witch was so cute, that Deb used it on a Facebook Real-Time Reading post one year!

A DISCOVERY OF WITCHES real-time reading, 31 October (chapter 42) - picture is from an example of Deborah Harkness' real-time reading on Facebook
An example of one of the a real-time reading posts we love so much. This one is pretty special, because the witch and vampire belong to a Daemon! It also helps that we won't need to hunt down a photo credit source! Score! ๐Ÿ˜„
*   (52:43) – The rest of this chapter … not to rush through this, but we ALL remember this chapter!
  • The pizza place (and the smitten cashier!)
  • 'Playing house'
  • Extra sensitivity on Diana’s neck
  • Black dress and stockings - we've all all seen the Wizard of Oz, right? Those stockings are iconic!
  • Sam & Friends
  • Will the "magpie" (we'll talk about this a bit in our Shadow of Night discussion) - see this post: Examining the Case of the Magpie
  • Dr. Faustus by Christopher Marlowe
  • Diana realizes that Kit is in love with Matthew (inscription in Faustus)
  • Ysabeau’s ring (pictured above)
  • Diana finds out she’s going to 1590!
  • The quiet vows
  • Matthew leaves a note for Sarah.
  • The hop barn.
  • It’s time . . .
d. Chapter 43
* (1:02:03) – Angela was addicted at this point!

* (1:02:40) – Sarah and Em return to the house:
They’d come home earlier than usual from the coven’s gathering, claiming they needed to pack for Faye and Janet’s road trip. Em had found the empty briefcase sitting by the family-room couch, and Sarah had discovered the clothes bundled up on top of the washing machine.
* (1:03:10) – "They're together"
“They’re gone,” Em had said.
Sarah went straight into her arms, her shoulders shaking.
“Are they all right?” she’d whispered.
“They’re together,” Em had replied. It wasn’t the answer Sarah wanted, but it was honest, just like Em.
* (1:03:19) – George Chapman's The Shadow of Night - also see the Weekly Geek on George.
She turned obediently to page twenty-nine, struggling through tears as she read the underlined passage:She hunters makes: and of that substance hounds  Whose mouths deafe heaven, and furrow earth with wounds,  And marvaile not a Nimphe so rich in grace  To hounds rude pursuits should be given in chase.  For she could turne her selfe to everie shape  Of swiftest beasts, and at her pleasure scape.
The words conjured up the image of Diana—clear, bright, unbidden—her face framed with gauzy wings and her throat thickly encircled with silver and diamonds. A single tear-shaped ruby quivered on her skin like a drop of blood, nestled into the notch between her collarbones.
* (1:03:07) – The Ampula:
Once the door closed, a worn silver coffin shot down the chimney and landed on the burning paper. Two gobbets of blood and mercury, released from the hollow chambers inside the ampulla by the heat of the fire, chased each other around the surface of the book before falling into the grate. There they seeped into the soft old mortar of the fireplace and traveled into the heart of the house. When they reached it, the house sighed with relief and released a forgotten, forbidden scent.
* (1:05:20) Housekeeping! – Thank you to our Apple Podcast reviewer (TeamAwesome), Valerie (from Pennsylvania), and Dora!

* (1:09:27) Save It For the Show … Topic - The All Souls Trilogy is NOT Outlander. That's the topic, and we all agree: let each exist independently of each other. Comparisons cause chasms in general. You can be a fan of both and not have the shows be carbon copies of the other.

* (1:13:52) Promo break – scroll down, or click here to get a hold of us and/or become a Discusser -- information on joining our Facebook group also located on that page.

* (1:15:11) – Last thoughts! Jean's last thoughts are about vampire immortality; the fact is they are "death resistant"! Angela's last thought is about The Four Tendancies by Gretchen Ruban (the book is out now!). Gretchen was on the Today Show - Segment here. Angela recommends our episode on personality. Valerie thanks our Facebook Group members! We're small but we're mighty! You can join as a regular listener. Use the 'word' we mentioned, and also answer the second question to join. She also brings up the fact that we have 68 gigs of footage that need cleaning off of the Mothership. We've come a long way in a year! Let's go one more! We'll see where we are!
  • Listeners, feel free to join Daemonic Discussers! -- The “word” is a phrase and is mentioned in this episode. Provide the word, and answer the second question. *Warning! Mini-rant to follow: ONLY listeners will be granted entry (the group is a supplement to this podcast, and something we provide JUST for our listeners/followers. Think of it as the podcast's green room). Because there has been some confusion, let us clarify! We don't advertise the group via social media. It's not public. It's not intended to be large or in competition with other groups covering this trilogy and/or TV show. Finally, it's not meant for people who are merely nosy curious, potential spammers, serial lurkers, or have a viral case of FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out). If you are skimming through this podcast + show notes just to find out how to get in (that's a lot of work if you aren't a regular listener -- think about how strange that appears! It's not like we are giving out free stuff to members . . .), then this group is not for you. The group exists because of this podcast. The podcast does not exist as a gateway to enter the group. That said, there are plenty of other groups for All Souls fans! See our links page. If you are of the belief that fandom sites should be for every fan who wants to participate, we agree! We produce this podcast and publish Daemons Domain; both are available to any fan who wants to listen/read. Non-listeners: again, this feels really strange to have to address you, because these are show-notes for a podcast episode -- if you want to hear what we are about, listen for a while, and then if you decide to hang out with us and other listeners to trade theories, chat about episodes, and speculate about the upcoming TV show, then by all means -- feel free to join our community afterwards. If you have questions about any of this, don't hesitate to contact us.
* (1:21:29) – Our podcast is released FORTNIGHTLY! We'll talk to you in a fortnight! ๐Ÿ˜„

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Take 23 -The One With the Vampire Scientists

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* Intro music: "Ghost Dance" (edited down to second chorus) by Kevin Macleod, licensed for use by Creative Commons.
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This was a Daemon Production

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