Thursday, September 20, 2018

Daemons Discuss - Podcast: Take 44! | Chapter Discussion about the All Souls Trilogy; Chapter 20 of Shadow of Night

Sotheby's London -- let's say it's about five minutes to nine . . .
Take 44 - The One With the Revolutionary Rake

Description: This is where it all began! We imagine the fandom is currently in the midst of reading Time's Convert (released on the 18th of September 2018). The majority of that story covers Marcus and Phoebe, and today we are returning to the foundation of that relationship. The place: Sotheby's. The time: 2010 (according to book canon). Marcus Whitmore entered Phoebe Taylor's life, and changed it forever! Since we didn't get to follow the whole journey on the way to Time's Convert, we are lucky enough to catch a glimpse of it in the very beginning. Join us as we see the third anomaly crop up into the present. Observe young Phoebe's introduction to the de Clermonts, and listen as we describe how this chapter changed our initial perception of Dr. Whitmore, full stop. #ForeverChanged

SPOILER ALERT! We (The Daemons) approach this podcast with an assumption that the listener has read The All Souls Trilogy, including A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night, The Book of Life, and snippits from The World of All Souls.  If you haven't, and you don't mind, we certainly don't mind!  😊  Let's do this. *Note - this podcast is labeled 'explicit'

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1. Show notes:

For newcomers to the series:- We'll start with the basics: The books in discussion are A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night and The Book of Life.  Together they make The All Souls Trilogy by Deborah Harkness.
- Our Daemon Guides to the All Souls Trilogy are available for download: ADOW, SON, TBOL

Deb's newsletter - The Blast; subscribe on her website
- If you'd like a ready-reference from the author herself, be sure to download the All Souls Real-Time Reading companion (free e-book at online booksellers via Penguin and Headline books).
- Deborah Harkness usually conducts a real-time reading on her Facebook Page (starting in September), and shares her posts across social media. Check out her website for all of her social media links, and of course all that she has to offer her readers! Be sure to sign up for her newsletter while you are there!
- To see what's available on the web as far as the All Souls universe fandom, check our links page.

In this episode:
* (00:00) — Sorry about the audio; it’s not completely up to the quality we’d like -- the person who is actually in charge of the audio forgot to turn on HER mike! You can still hear and understand her clearly, so it’s all good! Forgive us, because sometimes Daemons are incredibly human! πŸ˜†

* (00:49) — Yes, you heard right! That was exactly who you think it was.

* (02:21) — No, she’s not on the show, but she was gracious enough to do the opening. 😁 We’ll try to get her on next year during paperback promotion. We are persistent!

* (03:45) — This podcast is brought to you by our Patrons! To become a patron all you need to do is visit us at and become a member. See what level tier you'd like to join us! All tier levels will receive access to our exclusive Daemons Discuss! The Aftershow podcast.

* (05:36) — Ask a Daemon! It has to be a voicemail, a Speakpipe, or a voice memo. Rules as follows:
  • No, you can't get out of this by writing an email! We want to hear your voices! Do via Speakpipe, call us on voicemail (360) 519-7836, or email us your voice memo to DaemonsDiscuss (one word) at gmail (dot) com.
  • Keep your message short and tight - between 1 and 3 minutes, please! Val has enough of a time editing the three of us (as evidenced by this episode -- it's an adventure!).
  • Give us your name and where you are located -- just your first name is perfectly fine!
  • Ask us anything, or give us your All Souls story (how did you come to the books/TV show)
  • Deadline: 20 October 2018
* (09:47) — This chapter discussion is brought to you by Marty Pechauer! Thank you, Marty!

Too short? Throw a paycheck at the problem! Purchase some sky-high heels, and your very own brand of trouble . . .
a. Chapter 20
* (10:07) — A new time, a new place and a new person . . . named Phoebe.
  • We compare notes with Rima’s chapter. What's different? Javier vs. Sylvia. Daniel vs. Marcus.
  • We talk about Phoebe’s position in life, and she’s the low man on the totem pole. What are her thoughts upon hearing of a visit from a Dr. Whitmore beyond office hours?
  • Our comparison of Sylvia and Miranda from The Devil Wears Prada -- also a film! 
  • Jean brings up her kinship to Phoebe, as the young woman at the very bottom of the totem pole. We talk about what she might have been thinking in anticipation of this visit from this very important client. We also talk about our own little brushes with the bottom of ladder.
  • We wonder how much Sylvia actually knows about the de Clermont family. “But who is he?” Phoebe asked. It was a perfectly legitimate question, but Sylvia had looked affronted. “He’s from Oxford and an important client of this firm. That’s all you need to know,” Sylvia replied. “Sotheby’s values confidentiality, or did you miss that part of your training?”
  • We think the president knew that they were vampires, and we believe Sylvia may have suspected something was weird, but had a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Phoebe hadn’t been able to find any Whitmores in the Sotheby archives, however, and his customer number led to a simple card in a locked file cabinet that said “de Clermont Family—inquire with the president.” 
  • MARCUS! YOU. ARE. LATE. At five minutes to nine, she heard someone outside the door. What time was he supposed to be there? Seven! RUDE. 😠
  • We are shocked at the tone Marcus takes with Ysabeau! “This is the third wild-goose chase you’ve sent me on in as many days, Ysabeau. Please try to remember that I have things to do. Send Alain next time. There was a brief pause. “You think I’m not busy? I’ll call you after I see them.” The man made a muffled oath. “Tell your intuition to take a break, for God’s sake.” 
  • Could Ysabeau’s intuition have included a bit more than the items at Sotheby's?
  • Jean brings up Phoebe’s jumpiness. She could feel it coming in the air tonight! Drum solo from Phil Collin’s song used under the legally shaky cover of “fair use.” Phil! Please don’t sue us! We stand by the need to demonstrate the notorious drum solo appropriately. Listeners, if you like it, support the artistry by purchasing, or listening on a legit streaming service: Phil Collins - Coming in the Air Tonight, from the album Face Value (1981)
  • Marcus is very terse with Phoebe. Marcus is being RUDE! Phoebe gives it right back. “Where is Sylvia?” The blue eyes narrowed. “At the ballet. CoppΓ©lia, I believe.” Sylvia’s tickets were the best in the house, the extravagance claimed as a business expense. The man on the other side of the door slapped an identification card flat against the peephole. Phoebe reared back. “If you would be so kind as to step away? I can’t see anything at that distance.” The card moved a few inches from the door. 
  • “Twin blue beacons,” referring to Dr. Whitmore's eyes - it is our opinion that Phoebe has been taken in already.
  • We discuss the theory/application of “one long look ...” - from ADOW, Diana tells us what she had heard about vampires: Their bone structures are so well honed that they seem chiseled by an expert sculptor. Then they move, or speak, and your mind can’t begin to absorb what you’re seeing. Every movement is graceful; every word is musical. And their eyes are arresting, which is precisely how they catch their prey. One long look, a few quiet words, a touch: once you’re caught in a vampire’s snare you don’t stand a chance. Staring down at this vampire, I realized with a sinking feeling that my knowledge on the subject was, alas, largely theoretical. Little of it seemed useful now that I was facing one in the Bodleian Library. 
  • We discuss Marcus’s color choices . . . we hearken back to early TBOL, when we are told Marcus had taken on a different demeanor, and his clothing choices were morphing into what one would expect from the Grand Master of the Knights of Lazarus, mirroring Matthew a bit. As soon as the click sounded, Whitmore pushed his way through. He was dressed for a club in Soho, with his black jeans, vintage gray U2 T-shirt, and a ridiculous pair of high-top Converse trainers (also gray). A leather cord circled his neck, and a handful of ornaments of dubious provenance and little worth hung down from it. 
  • THE DITCH! Thank you, Jean. This turned from us talking about touching an ampula every five seconds to ... touching (fill in the blank) every five seconds. She had to loosen us up prior to crashing the wagon this time. Less injuries that way.
  • Zebras vs. horses. We explain how Deb has explained this to readers. It essentially is the KISS principle and Occam’s razor wrapped in one. “If you would be seated, Dr. Whitmore.” She gestured to the chair in front of her desk. Whitmore’s blue eyes moved from the chair to her. “Must I? This won’t take long. I’m only here to confirm that my grandmother isn’t seeing zebras where there are only horses.
  •  Marcus! Phoebe reached up and rubbed at the back of her neck. It was cricked from looking up at him. Whitmore’s nostrils flared, and his eyelids drifted down. 
  • Phoebe’s checking him out. Phoebe noticed that his eyelashes were darker than his blond hair, and longer and thicker than hers. Any woman would kill for lashes like those. 
  • Marcus issues a warning. “I really think you had better give me the box and let me be on my way, Miss Taylor.” The gruff voice smoothed out, deepened into a warning, though Phoebe couldn’t understand why. 
  • Phoebe appears a bit obtuse when it comes to male attention. We relate to her a little bit, and relay our own sordid tales of obtuseness. 
  • "According to Hoyle" -- see Edmond Hoyle. We ultimately figure Marcus is implying this whole cat and mouse exchange is a game. “Fine. I’m happy to do this standing up if you prefer, Dr. Whitmore, though it’s a great deal less comfortable.” “That’s the best offer I’ve had in some time.” Whitmore’s mouth twitched. “If we’re going to proceed according to Hoyle, though, I think you should call me Marcus.” 
  • Marcus tones it down. Civility returns. “Here’s your pen,” Marcus said politely, “and your form. See?” He leaned closer. “I did exactly what you asked me to. I’m really very well behaved. My father made sure of it.” 
  • Angela brings up Marcus’ first father in Time’s Convert. We discuss his fathers, and all agree that Matthew was indeed an upgrade.
  • Phoebe is doing an appraisal of Marcus’s attire, including accessories. Angela thinks his expensive accessories are down-valued in Phoebe's eyes because maybe he looked like he belonged to some fake vampire club πŸ˜‚
  • The miniatures are presented for Marcus’ observation. She inspected the form as she returned to the desk. It all seemed to be in order, and if this man turned out to be some kind of criminal—which wouldn’t surprise her a bit—at least she wouldn’t be guilty of breaking the rules. Phoebe lifted the lid of the box, prepared to surrender it to the odd Dr. Whitmore for his examination. 
  • Ysabeau is consulted. Valerie attempts imperious French. No! We haven’t been drinking! “Oui?” said an imperious French voice at the other end of the line. This was the problem with cell phones, Phoebe thought. Everybody shouted on them, and you could hear private conversations. 
  • Marcus sends a message. We're not quite sure if Phoebe has received it. Marcus has a "situation," Ysabeau! πŸ˜‰ “No. And thank God for it. My complete attention isn’t good for anybody.” Whitmore eyed Phoebe and smiled. The man was charming, Phoebe reluctantly admitted. “But give me a few days before you send me on another errand. Just how much are you willing to pay for them, or shouldn’t I ask?” 
  • Price doesn’t matter. N’importe quel prix.” The price doesn’t matter. These were words that made auction houses happy. Phoebe stared down at the miniatures. They really were extraordinary. 
  • Secrets on display — “Hilliard believed that his portrait miniatures were best viewed in private,” Phoebe mused aloud. “He felt that the art of limning put too many of his subjects’ secrets on display. You can see why. These two look like they kept all kinds of secrets. 
  • The hand that drifted down from the waist. Marcus! The phone rang. When Phoebe reached to answer it, she thought his hand drifted down, just for a moment, to her waist 
  • Marcus is sad 😞 “I almost believe that, were I to speak, he might hear me,” Marcus said wistfully. Something was off. Phoebe couldn’t identify what it was, but there was more at stake here than the acquisition of two sixteenth-century miniatures. 
  • Phoebe’s attempt at small talk: “Your grandmother must have a very healthy bank account, Dr. Whitmore, to pay so handsomely for two unidentifiable Elizabethan portraits. As you are also a Sotheby’s client, I feel I should tell you that you surely overpaid for them. A portrait of Queen Elizabeth I from this period might go for six figures with the right buyers in the room, but not these.” The identity of the sitter was crucial to such valuations. “We’ll never know who these two were. Not after so many centuries of obscurity. Names are important.” *note the 'twinning' between Ysabeau and Phoebe
  • Marcus pulls a Matthew. He asks her for dinner. “I’d like to take you to dinner,” he said mildly, seemingly unaware of Phoebe’s clear signals of uninterest. “We can celebrate the Taverners’ good fortune, as well as the sizable commission that you will be splitting with Sylvia.” 
  • Pheobe: "Wait...what's going on here?!" Sylvia? Split a commission? Phoebe’s mouth gaped in disbelief. The chances that her boss might do such a thing were less than nil. 
  • Marcus drops the mike several times. “It was a condition of the deal. My grandmother wouldn’t have it any other way.” His voice was gruff. “Dinner?” “I don’t go out with strange men after dark.” “Then I’ll ask you out to dinner tomorrow, after we’ve had lunch. Once you’ve spent two hours in my company, I won’t be ‘strange’ any longer.” 
  • Jean takes over the reading . . . in the only way she knows how“I shouldn’t be so forward. My grandmother disapproves of that almost as much as she disapproves of being cut out of a business deal. But here’s the thing, Phoebe.” Whitmore lowered his mouth until it was inches from her ear and dropped his voice to a whisper. “Unlike the men who have taken you out to dinner and perhaps gone back to your flat for something afterward, your propriety and fine manners don’t frighten me off. Quite the contrary. And I can’t help imagining what you’re like when that icy control melts.” 🎀⇤The mike drops for the final time. Daemons are flailing on the floor. A medic is required here.
  • Phoebe: What just happened here? We end it here. Phoebe’s hand was trembling. That man—that strange man with no grasp of proper etiquette and startling blue eyes—had kissed her. At her place of work. Without her permission. And she hadn’t slapped him, which is what well-bred daughters of diplomats were taught to do as a last resort against unwanted advances at home and abroad. She was indeed in trouble.
* (1:04:57)  Housekeeping! This episode's Houskeeping is brought to us by Lisa Slack, thank you Lisa. Thank you Lyn in Cali & Ryoli for your reviews! Thanks for your email, B! BTW, check out Creatures Rock - Twitter/Instagram

* (1:09:07) Save It For the Show. This episode's SIFTS is brought to us by Leslie Planitzer, thank you, Leslie! Topic - patience is a de Clermont virtue! Spoilers are unavoidable. We discuss our own relationships with spoilers. Subscribe to Deb's newsletter on her website, watch her Facebook live videos on her Facebook page.

* (1:15:50)  Promo break – scroll down, or click here to get a hold of us and/or become a Discusser -- information on joining our Facebook group also located on that page. Those of you with US numbers can text ADOW to 444999 to become a Discusser.

* (1:17:00) — Last thoughts: Jean warns American listeners about the press packet summaries; spoilers and/or the possibility of setting your self up for disappointment may live there! A big congratulations goes to Patricia! She won our emoji contest from the last time. We are now holding a new one! Listen up for details!

The design Patricia won from the last (😍) emoji contest!
* (1:19:34) — πŸ‘»!

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Credits/Copyright Information * Intro music: "Ghost Dance" (edited down to second chorus) by Kevin Macleod, licensed for use by Creative Commons.
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