Thursday, March 1, 2018

Daemons Discuss - Podcast: Take 33! | Chapter Discussion about the All Souls Trilogy; Chapter 9 of Shadow of Night

Herodotus - ask Val to say it 5x fast! Or even 1x slow . . .  (sad trombone!)
Take 33 - The One With the Puny Son

Description: Matthew Clairmont is absolutely puny according to Philippe de Clermont. He's not been taking care of himself properly, and needs exercise! While the Philippe takes care of his puny son, Diana Bishop's tasks are decidedly NOT puny. She needs to learn how to manage a staff, the household, her uncertainty, HER LIFE! We begin with a brooding, moody vampire in the antechambers, and end with a fascination with the whole gambit she's been set up for. She's playing for keeps, and Philippe is making sure of it!

Later in the episode, we review the unedited proof sampler of The World of All Souls (no spoilers), and give our initial impressions. Delight ensues! Happy listening!

SPOILER ALERT! We (The Daemons) approach this podcast with an assumption that the listener has read The All Souls Trilogy, including A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night, and The Book of Life. If you haven't, and you don't mind, we certainly don't mind!  ๐Ÿ˜Š  Let's do this. *Note - this podcast is labeled 'explicit'

Find Daemons Discuss:  Apple Podcasts | Stitcher | Google Play | iHeartRadio | Spotify | RSS | + More!

Download .Mp3 of this episode

1. Show notes:

For newcomers to the series:- We'll start with the basics: The books in discussion are A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night and The Book of Life.  Together they make The All Souls Trilogy by Deborah Harkness.
- Our Daemon Guides to the All Souls Trilogy are available for download: ADOW, SON, TBOL

Deb's newsletter - The Blast; subscribe on her website
- If you'd like a ready-reference from the author herself, be sure to download the All Souls Real-Time Reading companion (free e-book at online booksellers via Penguin and Headline books).
- Deborah Harkness usually conducts a real-time reading on her Facebook Page (starting in September), and shares her posts across social media. Check out her website for all of her social media links, and of course all that she has to offer her readers! Be sure to sign up for her newsletter while you are there!
- To see what's available on the web as far as the All Souls universe fandom, check our links page.

In this episode:

* (00:55) - Thank you, Stephen, Jody (also for the link to the song, The Christians and the Pagans), Melanie, NE Angela, Lauren & Iwona. See full Discusser emails --> here!

Chapter 9
* (09:31) - Diana finds Matthew brooding on the floor 
When my door swung open the next morning, Matthew was propped against the stone wall opposite. Judging from his state, he hadn’t gotten any sleep either. He sprang to his feet, much to the amusement of the two young serving women who stood giggling behind me. They weren’t used to seeing him this way, all mussed and tousled. A scowl darkened his face.
Wild Musk, by Coty! Our tween/teen senses loved this back in the day!
* (09:58) - We discuss the scent of civet, and we reminisced about our early memories of musk driven scents. We bring up Wild Musk by Coty, then are reminded of our first encounter with musk 10 years later by the popular cologne by Calvin Klein -- Obsession. Then we wandered a bit into the ditch with the recollection of the whole parade of strong scents like Red Door, Beautiful, and Poison — all very distinct scents which were very much inline with the times while we grew up as teens/young adults.

A brand of Kopi Lowak
* (12:13) - We think Louisa may have enjoyed the scent because it was lush, rich and indulgent - Jean likens it to the luxury of drinking the civet or “cat poop” coffee, aka… the most expensive coffee in the world! It's called Kopi Lowak, which is made by collecting the feces of the Civet cat who consumes the coffee beans. (๐Ÿคข). Read more here:
 I stepped forward, cranberry skirts swinging. Like my bed, my servants, and practically everything else I touched, the outfit belonged to Louisa de Clermont. Her scent of roses and civet had been suffocatingly thick last night, emanating from the embroidered hangings that surrounded the bed.
* (12:44) - We discuss the fact that the strong scent of Matthew (cinnamon and cloves) brings Diana refreshment and comfort (based on her association), vs. Louisa’s equally strong scent (and she isn’t even there!).
I took a deep breath of cold, clear air and sought out the notes of clove and cinnamon that were essentially and indisputably Matthew.
* (13:27) - Good morning, Philippe.
A sudden gust around my ankles indicated that another witness had arrived. Our lips parted.
             “You are too old to moon about in antechambers, Matthaios,” his father commented
* (14:09) - The 12th century wasn’t good for Matthew, according to Philippe. He got called to the holy land from Paris; he was happy to be studying with Abelard. Jean mentioned the story of Heloise and Abelard - read it here!
“The twelfth century was not good for you, and we allowed you to read entirely too much poetry."
* (14:56) - Compose yourself! Jean makes a funny! ๐Ÿคญ๐Ÿ˜‰.
Compose yourself before the men see you, please, and bring Diana downstairs.
* (15:30) - The beehive at midsummer; we were discussing Philippe’s comment about Diana's scent and compared it to Ysabeau’s statement addressing Diana’s scent in A Discovery of Witches
"[...] and bring Diana downstairs. She smells like a beehive at midsummer, and it will take time for the household to grow accustomed to her scent. We don’t want any unfortunate bloodshed.”
* (16:14) - Matthew whines a bit here:
“There would be less chance of that if you would stop interfering. This separation is absurd,” Matthew said, grasping my elbow. “We are husband and wife.”
* (17:50) - Matthew cobbles a shaky escape plan.
“Philippe is a meddler. As for finding a witch, he’s not much fonder of your people than is Maman.” Matthew studied the scarred wooden table and picked at a bit of candle wax that had trickled down into one of the cracks. “My house in Milan might do. We could spend Christmas there. Italian witches have a considerable reputation for magic and are known for their uncanny foresight.”
             “Surely not Milan.” Philippe appeared before us with the force of a hurricane and slid onto the bench next to me. Matthew carefully moderated his speed and strength in deference to warmblooded nerves. So, too, did Miriam, Marcus, Marthe, and even Ysabeau. His father showed no such consideration.
An image of the Italian Wars - Battle of Pavia. Artist unknown.
* (18:28) - The Borgias, the de' Medicis, and the Italian scuffles Matthew participated in (if not caused).

* (18:50) - Philippe's language entrance exams … Diana fails for the most part, but is informed that her Latin and French will need to improve because few in the household speak English.
“Diana will have to become more fluent in French and Latin. Only a few of our servants speak English, and none at all belowstairs.”
* (22:02) - The keys…
He tossed a heavy ring of keys across the table. My fingers opened automatically to catch them.
             “Absolutely not,” Matthew said, reaching to pluck them from my grasp. “Diana won’t be here long enough to trouble herself with the household.”
* (22:19) - Reading Herodotus and Aquinas seldom lead to bad behavior . . .  but reading the actual words Herodotus and Aquinas out loud causes Valerie’s tongue to behave terribly!
“We don’t lock up books in this house,” Philippe said, “only food, ale, and wine. Reading Herodotus or Aquinas seldom leads to bad behavior.”
* (23:16) - Leave the household to your woman. Also, the word PUNY!
Philippe grinned at his son. “You didn’t lose your combativeness when you lost your sense, I see. Leave the household to your woman and join me for a ride. You look puny and need proper exercise.” He rubbed his hands together in anticipation.
* (23:53) - Trier! The Trier Witch Trials
“Why is Ysabeau in Trier?” I asked.
“What does it matter?” he said evasively.
* (24:08) - If you truly loved me …
“Do you love me, Diana?” Matthew’s mild question surprised me.
             “Yes,” I responded instantaneously. “But if loving you were all that mattered, this would be simple and we would still be in Madison.”
             “It is simple.” Matthew rose to his feet. “If you love me, my father’s words don’t have the power to dissolve our promises to each other, any more than the Congregation can make us abide by the covenant.”
             “If you truly loved me, you would give yourself to me. Body and soul.”
             “That’s not so simple,”
* (25:00) - We discuss some hind-sight is 20/20 things with Matthew’s blood rage right here.

* (27:12) - How RUDE!
“Then bed him. If it’s me you want, you’ll wait.” Matthew was composed, but it was the calm of a frozen river: hard and smooth on the surface but raging underneath.
* (28:03) - Vampire divorce…NO.
“Because there is no such thing as vampire divorce. There’s mating and there’s death. Some vampires—my mother and Philippe included—separate for a time if there are”—he paused—“disagreements. They take other lovers. With time and distance, they resolve their differences and come together again. But that isn’t going to work for me.”
* (28:49) - Diana has to break it down for Matthew. Diana is finally making sense to us.
“You would rather be anywhere than here. I know that, Matthew. But Hancock was right: I wouldn’t last long in a place like London or Paris, where we might be able to find a willing witch. Other women will spot my differences straightaway, and they won’t be as forgiving as Walter or Henry. I’d be turned in to the authorities—or the Congregation—in a matter of days.”
* (30:11) - Boy, bye!
“I’m not playing house. I’m playing for keeps.” Matthew quirked his lips at my words, but it wasn’t a real smile. “Go. Spend time with your father. I’ll be too busy to miss you.”
The stars from the cast of the original Dynasty
* (30:44) - Millennial education alert! 1) About Krystle Carrington - “playing for keeps” is a very 70’s-80’s thing to say, and it reminded Jean of her talking Blake (her TV husband) down from a tree. Krystle was Blake Carrington’s wife in the TV drama Dynasty. 2) Angela brings up the song Gold, Girls, Guns - by Metric, because of similar lyrics containing the words "playing for keeps".

* (31:21) - The tells . . .
“Staring out the window doesn’t hide your thoughts, Pierre. It’s one of your master’s few tells, and every time he does it, I know he’s concealing something.
* (32:46) - Valerie likes Deb’s description of a tell.
“An outward sign of an inward concern. Matthew looks away when he’s anxious or doesn’t want to tell me something. And he runs his fingers through his hair when he doesn’t know what to do. These are tells.”
* (33:25) - Observation, not divination.
“[...] And I used observation, not divination, to know my husband.”
* (34:07) - Alain reminds Pierre of his place; he was being a bit familiar. The Daemons forgive him immediately!
“So he does, madame.” Pierre looked at me, awestruck. “Does milord know that you used a witch’s powers of divination to see into his soul? Madame de Clermont knows these habits, and milord’s brothers and father do as well. But you have known him for such a short time and yet know so much.”
             Alain coughed.
             Pierre looked horrified. “I forget myself, madame. Please forgive me.”
* (34:40) - Diana’s next in line in the chain of command. We also discuss the vampire clan's reliance on the servant class here (and wonder why they --Alain, Pierre, etc.-- put up with it?!)
“If I request something that would require the assistance of milord or, more important, his father, please tell me and we will change course immediately. They don’t need to worry about my small concerns.” The men looked wary but intrigued.
             “ร’c,” Alain agreed with a nod.
* (35:45) - Chef! Popeye references; Diana’s ally list grows.
Then we decamped to the kitchens, where I had my first encounter with Chef. He was a human, as thin as a reed and no taller than Pierre. Like Popeye, he had all of his bulk concentrated in his forearms, which were the size of hams.
* (37:51) - The vessels that Matthew’s blood can be collected in, his pickiness, and Diana’s interest.
Milord needs blood. And he will not take it unless it is prepared just so.”
             Chef led me to the game room, where the carcasses of several beasts were suspended over silver troughs to catch the blood falling from their severed necks.
             “Only silver, glass, or pottery should be used to collect blood for milord, or he refuses it,” Chef instructed with a raised finger.
             “Why?” I asked.
             “Other vessels taint the blood with bad odors and tastes. This is pure. Smell,” Chef instructed, handing me the cup. My stomach heaved at the metallic aroma, and I covered my mouth and nose. Alain motioned the blood away, but I stopped him with a glance.
* (38:59) - The appetite comparison of Matthew and Ysabeau . . . then off into the ditch we go….
French listeners, feel free to chastise us for any generalizations we made. We deserve it! ๐Ÿ˜–๐Ÿ˜™
Madame de Clermont was not so fussy, Chef said with a sorrowful shake of his head, but she had not passed her impressive appetite to her son.
* (41:56) - Marthe’s room.
“Whose room is this?” I asked, my throat closing at the scent of the herbs that hung from the rafters.
             “It belongs to Madame de Clermont’s woman,” Alain explained.
             “Marthe,” I breathed, stepping over the threshold. Earthenware pots stood in neat rows on shelves, and the floor was swept clean. There was something medicinal—mint?—in the tang of the air. It reminded me of the scent that sometimes drifted from the housekeeper’s clothes. When I turned, the three of them were blocking the doorway.
             “The men are not allowed in here, madame,” Pierre confessed, looking over his shoulder as though he feared that Marthe might appear at any moment.
* (43:47) - The time was spooling in the room . . . we discuss what we think that means.
The blue and amber threads were there, just as I expected. I sensed something else as well, some other creature in some other time. My rosemary-scented fingers reached to make contact, but it was too late. Whoever it was had already gone, and the corner had returned to its normal, dusty self.
* (44:50) - THE DAMN TEA.
The lid lifted to reveal twelve equal compartments, each filled with a different substance. Parsley. Ginger. Feverfew. Rosemary. Sage. Queen Anne’s lace seeds. Mugwort. Pennyroyal. Angelica. Rue. Tansy. Juniper root. Marthe was well equipped to help the women of the village curb their fertility. I touched each in turn, pleased that I remembered their names and scents. My satisfaction turned quickly to shame, however. I knew nothing else—not the proper phase of the moon to gather them or what other magical uses they might have. Sarah would have known. Any sixteenth-century woman would have known, too.
             I shook off the regret. For now I knew what these herbs would do if I steeped them in hot water or wine. I tucked the box under my arm and joined the others in the kitchen.
* (45:22) - The calendar dis-junction.
“The English refuse the pope’s new calendar,” he said slowly, as if talking to a child. “So it is only the seventeenth day of November there, and the twenty-seventh day of November here in France.”
             I had timewalked more than four centuries and not lost a single hour, yet my trip from Elizabeth’s England to war-torn France had cost me nearly three weeks instead of ten days. I smothered a sigh and wrote the correct dates on the top of the page. My pen stilled.
* (46:46) - Valerie asks about Advent. We realize the fasting before Christmas seems to have completely reversed in modern times!
“That means Advent will begin on Sunday.”
             “Oui. The village—and milord, of course—will fast until the night before Christmas. The household will break the fast with the seigneur on the seventeenth of December.” How did a vampire fast? My knowledge of Christian religious ceremonies was of little help.
* (48:25) - Saturnalia
“What happens on the seventeenth?” I asked, making note of that date, too.
             “It is Saturnalia, madame,” Pierre said, “the celebration dedicated to the god of the harvest. Sieur Philippe still observes the old ways.”
             “Ancient” would be more accurate. Saturnalia hadn’t been practiced since the last days of the Roman Empire. I pinched the bridge of my nose, feeling overwhelmed
* (48:45) - Matthew returns … with Philippe. Philippe brings up the book History of the Franks. Angela thinks that Matthew inspires some of the stories.

* (50:18) - Diana demonstrates what she learned today.
“Merci, Alain.” I gestured at the tray. “You both must be hungry. Chef sent your meal here. Why don’t you tell me about your morning?”
             “I don’t need—” Matthew began. His father and I both made sounds of exasperation. Philippe deferred to me with a gentle incline of his head.
             “Yes you do,” I said. “It’s partridge blood, which you should be able to stomach at this hour. I hope you will hunt tomorrow, though, and Saturday, too. If you intend to fast for the next four weeks, you have to feed while you can.” I thanked Alain, who bowed, shot a veiled glance at his master, and left hastily. “Yours is stag’s blood, Philippe. It was drawn only this morning.”
             “What do you know of partridge blood and fasting?” Matthew’s fingers tugged gently on my loose curl. I looked up into my husband’s gray-green eyes.
             “More than I did yesterday.” I freed my hair before handing him his cup.
* (53:33) - We end the chapter (gavel slam!)
“How did you find the kitchens?” Matthew asked, turning the conversation in my direction.
             “Fascinating,” I said, meeting Philippe’s shrewd eyes with a challenging stare. “Absolutely fascinating.”
* (54:05) Housekeeping: Thanks Linda M. & Nancy! Also thanks goes to our reviewer, Midwifeandmoonlover (thank you, Dora!)

A look at the physical copy of The World of All Souls sampler.
* (56:40) Save It For the Show … Topic: We un-box the sampler of The World of All Souls, and share our impressions here (no spoilers!), and we describe what it is, and what we see in this 18 page sampler. If you are a Netgalley member, you can request it from here (it won't be the physical copy like the ones we received, but you'll be able to view on your e readers: The World of All Souls on Netgalley).

* (1:04:20) Promo break – scroll down, or click here to get a hold of us and/or become a Discusser -- information on joining our Facebook group also located on that page.

* (1:05:30) - Last thoughts:

The US cover design of Time's Convert

The Aftershow cover image; this is what patrons will see when they load the feed into their pod-catcher of choice!
  • Valerie talks about our Patreon page and thanks our current patrons. You are formally invited to become a patron, which will grant you access to The AfterShow! Imagine stripper๐Ÿ’ƒ music while we entice you to throw us your dollar bills ๐Ÿ˜! In all seriousness, we do not expect anything from you but to just enjoy Daemons Discuss! — ๐Ÿ™we are so thankful to all of our listeners!  If you enjoy our show and want to help support us, the info is located here on the page:
  • Angela talks about the wrap-up of the television show (she thought she'd sneak away from doing a last thought - cheeky Daemon!) See our TV news page for some behind the scenes goodness. We'll continue updating as we get more information!
Here are some last minute things we didn't include in this episode:
All Souls Con 2018
Join our Facebook Group
  • Join the FB group Daemonic Discussers!
  • The word: 'Fucking Firedrake.' Make sure you answer question 2! 
  • * NOTE: Please keep in mind that this group is only a supplement to our podcast. We recommend that you join only if you truly enjoy the podcast and want to discuss things further. Listening just to gain entry will be a waste of our time, and frankly yours! The screening process has been intensified to keep membership intimate, and to try to keep out folks who don’t have the best intentions for the group and its dynamic. It's an imperfect process, but we are determined to keep it a healthy place for speculation and more detailed discussion for all members, including us. When we opened the group, we decided to require listener-only membership because podcasting is a very personal medium. People who listen tend to know how we are and think. Those who like what we have to say (and don't find us too abrasive/foul-mouthed/opinionated ๐Ÿ˜ˆ), will most likely enjoy the group to its fullest, and utilize it as a sounding board with other like-minded members who have the ability to peacefully discuss divergent or opposing ideas. We don't have time to worry about mal-intent, because it breeds drama and discourse. If we're not comfortable, then the rest of the members won't be comfortable. None of this is negotiable. It's simply how it is. This is why the Facebook group is not public and we don't advertise it on Deb's website, social media, or other venues.
Previous Episode
Take 32 - The One With the Prince

2.  Help us out!

If you enjoyed this episode, and would like to give us some support, here's what you can do:
    a. Tweet about it!  Click here to tweet about this episode!
    b. Subscribe to us: Apple Podcasts, Google Play and/or Stitcher & many more places!
    c. Rate & leave us a review in Apple Podcasts! Do it on your phone, or do it on your computer
    d. Consider supporting us on Patreon; extra episodes (coming in March 2018) + more!

Our patrons help keep us going!

3. Your Feedback:

There are many ways to contact us with feedback:

Social Media: Comment on our Facebook page or you can touch base with us on Twitter & Instagram -- we are @DaemonsDomain or @DaemonsDiscuss (same Daemons!) with your comments. Oh, and if you like what you hear, follow us too!

Leave us a voicemail: There are two ways:
A. Call us at 1 (360) 519-7836 - Tell us your first name, and your message. Recording will shut off after 3 minutes. * Note - This is a U.S. number.  International rates may apply when dialing out of country. Your message may be used in an episode; messages are subject to editing for clarity and brevity.

B. Use the SpeakPipe widget below ⬇️ *Note - you'll have 90 seconds before the recording ends. Your message may be used in an episode; messages are subject to editing for clarity and brevity.

Email us directly:  DaemonsDiscuss (one word) at gmail (dot) com.

Contact us using this form below: Please make sure to let us know if it's OK to read your email (or a portion of it) on future episodes. If not, that's perfectly fine, too. Just let us know! Also, if you sign up for our "Discuss" email list we may send you the subject matter of a future podcast ahead of time - this way your inputs may even get included while we record!

Feedback for Daemons Discuss Episode
Questions marked by * are required.
1. Name: *
2. Email: *
3. Add you to our "Discuss" email list? You'll be the first to know about upcoming episodes - we'll have your input before we record!
  • Yes
  • No
4. Can we read your name on a future episode?
  • Yes
  • No
  • First name only
5. Input, questions or comments about *this* episode?

Thanks for listening!
Until next time...

Credits/Copyright Information 
* Intro music: "Ghost Dance" (edited down to second chorus) by Kevin Macleod, licensed for use by Creative Commons.
* News intro: by AwesomeMusicVideos21; provided for fair-use/royalty-free.
*  Outro music: Rimsky-Korsakov - "Scheherazade Symphonic Suite for Orchestra Op.35 - IV. Allegro molto," Public       

* Cover art (+ all variations associated w/ it): © Daemons Domain 

* The term "unofficial" is explained in our disclaimer located in Terms of Use - item 14.
* The Daemons Discuss podcast is hosted and produced by the owners (Angela, Jean and Valerie) of Daemons Domain and can also be found by entering the url in your browser, (listed on the various podcast syndicates like iTunes, Stitcher, etc.) which will redirect you back to the parent site, Daemons Domain.
* This podcast is intended for personal download/consumption.  Please see our Terms of Use; item 3.

* Our episode titles are a loving tribute to the show "Friends" just 'cause we love Friends and - let's face it - it's easier! Here's how one of the show creators explains their reasoning:
Jeff Greenstein: "When Marta & David & Jeff & I did 'Dream On', we used to spend a lot of time thinking about titles, because they were on-screen at the top of each episode. On "Friends", we decided that was a waste of time. We figured, why not name each episode after the thing that people will ostensibly be talking about around the water-cooler the next day?"
This was a Daemon Production

Follow us on Facebook - Twitter - Pinterest - Tumblr - Instagram - Subscribe