Thursday, January 4, 2018

Daemons Discuss - Podcast: Take 29! | Chapter Discussion about the All Souls Trilogy; Chapters 5 & 6 of Shadow of Night

The pamphlet that Danforth was waving around . . .

Take 29 - The One With the Secrets and Surprises

Description: Let's talk about the secrets and surprises we receive in these chapters, shall we?! As part of her elucidation lessons directed by George Chapman, Diana Bishop is reading the Faerie Queene (by Edmund Spenser). The boys are discussing philosophy, playing dice, arguing about astronomy and mathematics when all of a sudden, BAM! Enter Gallowglass and his pal Hancock. They've got some news; a lot of it, actually! It turns out that Widow Beaton's visit didn't end easily as Matthew thought it would. Diana is about to be interrogated for performing witchcraft by some of the locals. She also find out she's married to a spy and the current de Clermont on the congregation! And if all that wasn't enough . . . Philippe de Clermont thinks his son Matthew is dead. Oy. Listen in as we sort through this web of intrigue!

SPOILER ALERT! We (The Daemons) approach this podcast with an assumption that the listener has read The All Souls Trilogy, including A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night, and The Book of Life. If you haven't, and you don't mind, we certainly don't mind!  😊  Let's do this. *Note - this podcast is labeled 'explicit'

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1. Show notes:

For newcomers to the series:- We'll start with the basics: The books in discussion are A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night and The Book of Life.  Together they make The All Souls Trilogy by Deborah Harkness.
- Our Daemon Guides to the All Souls Trilogy are available for download: ADOW, SON, TBOL

Deb's newsletter - The Blast; subscribe on her website
- If you'd like a ready-reference from the author herself, be sure to download the All Souls Real-Time Reading companion (free e-book at online booksellers via Penguin and Headline books).
- Deborah Harkness usually conducts a real-time reading on her Facebook Page (starting in September), and shares her posts across social media. Check out her website for all of her social media links, and of course all that she has to offer her readers! Be sure to sign up for her newsletter while you are there!
- To see what's available on the web as far as the All Souls universe fandom, check our links page.

In this episode:
* (00:54) – Thank you Discussers Lauren, Stephen, & Jody for your emails. You can read full emails here

a. Chapter 5
* (07:00) – The Faerie Queene (and the implication that Walter messed it all up…)
“You are not my Faustus, Walt, for all your intellectual pretentions,” Kit said sharply. “Look what your meddling did to Edmund’s story. The Faerie Queene was a perfectly enjoyable tale about King Arthur. Now it’s a calamitous blend of Malory and Virgil, it wends on and on, and Gloriana—please. The queen is nearly as old as Widow Beaton and just as crotchety. It will astonish me if Edmund finishes it, with you telling him what to do all the time. If you want to be immortalized on the boards, talk to Will. He’s always hard up for ideas.”
* (07:51) – Jean has a theory that Matthew was Kit’s Faustus … she contends that obsessive love works that way.

* (09:24) – 💥BAM! Enter Gallowglass and Hancock.
Moments later two bulky figures swathed in rough brown cloaks appeared at the other end of the room, where Kit and George still sat with their dice and books. In my own time, professional football teams would have recruited the new arrivals. They had overdeveloped arms with prominent tendons, enlarged wrists, thickly muscled legs, and brawny shoulders.
From a play written about the pair as a spinoff from Hamlet (Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead) - Daniel Radcliffe plays Rosencrantz and Joshua McGuire plays Guildenstern in this performance (2017/The Old Vic) of the tragicomedy play by Tom Stoppard.
* (11:04) – (Not mentioned in the books, but a Deb reveal to the fandom) Gallowglass and Hancock were modeled after Rosencrantz and Guildenstern in Hamlet.

* (11:40) – Angela mentions that Gallowglass was a surprise character for Deb as she was writing (much like Hamish). Jean reminds us that Hancock has a scent; spring grass (in winter!).

* (13:10) – The Matthew that existed in these times was displaced by the Matthew we know from the present. Diana asks who these men were, Matthew answers “friends”… UGH! DO BETTER, MATTHEW!
“Who are these men, Matthew?” I moved closer to get a better look at the pair. He turned and settled his hands on my upper arms, keeping me where I was. “They’re friends,” Matthew said, but his obvious effort to regroup made me wonder if he was telling the truth.
* (14:18) – Whoa…Diana is no ghost!
“Nor is she from Chester,” Gallowglass said thoughtfully. “Does she always have such a bright glaem about her?” The word might be unfamiliar, but its meaning was clear enough. I was shimmering again. It sometimes happened when I was angry, or concentrating on a problem. It was another familiar manifestation of a witch’s power, and vampires could detect the pale glow with their preternaturally sharp eyes.
A depiction of the Scottish witch trails
* (15:04) – The Berwick witch trails + Widow Sampson (brought up by Jean…she was arrested coincidentally on the day of Matthew and Diana's time-walk)

* (15:55) – Matthew on the congregation?!
The Congregation?” Marlowe’s eyes narrowed, and he looked at Matthew appraisingly. “Is this true? Are you one of the mysterious members?” “Of course it’s true! How do you imagine he’s kept you from the noose, young Marlowe?”
* (16:45) – Matthew is comfortable enough to admit Diana was his wife and his mate…that’s a big deal!
“Not just my wife,” Matthew admitted. “She’s my mate, too.” A vampire mated for life when compelled to do so by an instinctive combination of affection, affinity, lust, and chemistry. The resulting bond was breakable only by death. Vampires might marry multiple times, but most mated just once.
* (18:30) – The old woman raising hell on market day sending inquisitors to Diana’s door-step.
“Some old besom went into fits on market day. She’s blaming it on you.” Gallowglass studied me from head to toe as if trying to imagine how someone so unprepossessing had caused so much trouble.
“Widow Beaton,” I said breathlessly.
* (19:39) – Where did that blood come from? Jean wonders if there are donors in the back. Angela didn’t think about it much (being pre-conditioned by a similar scene in An Interview with a Vampire.)
Charles, whose task it was to sustain the vampires, had a delicate pitcher with silver handles and three tall glass beakers. The red liquid within was darker and more opaque than any wine.
* (21:10) – Gallowglass is family!
“‘Auntie’?” I turned to Matthew in shock. First Berwick, then the Congregation, and now this. “This . . . berserker is your nephew?
* (21:48) – They are knights!
“You’re knights.” I looked for a matching ring on Hancock’s finger. There it was, oddly placed on his thumb. Here at last was evidence that Matthew was involved in the business of the Order of Lazarus, too
* (23:18) – The KOL … knights or mercenaries? The name Gallowglass means mercenary. We discuss this further here.

* (25:40) – Our Lord and Master … and Diana’s “derangement.”
If one more person in this room questions me or criticizes Diana, I’ll rip your heart out and feed it to you while it still beats.” “There is our lord and master,” Hancock said with a mocking salute.
 “It’s all right, Auntie.” Gallowglass made a soft noise of sympathy. “I’m not sure what’s amiss in your head, but Matthew will take care of you. He has a warm spot in his heart for lost souls, bless him.” “I’m dizzy, not deranged,” I retorted.
* (26:58) – Diana goes OFF.
“Feisty, am I? My husband is a member of the Congregation. A posse of men is coming on horseback to accuse me of harming a friendless old woman. I’m in a strange place and keep getting lost on my way to the bedroom. I still have no shoes. And I’m living in a dormitory full of adolescent boys who never stop talking!” I fumed. “But you needn’t trouble yourself on my account. I can take care of myself!”
* (28:06) – The inquisitors arrive … Matthew gives Diana a pre-game talk, Diana told him what she thought of him. Great scene!
He turned his attention to me. “Let me do the talking. Don’t answer their questions unless and until I tell you to do so. Now,” he continued briskly, “we can’t afford to have anything . . . unusual happen tonight as it did when Widow Beaton was here. Are you still dizzy? Do you need to lie down?”
             “Curious. I’m curious,” I said, hands clenched. “Don’t worry about my magic or my health. Worry about how many hours it’s going to take you to answer my questions after the minister is gone. And if you try to wiggle out of them with the excuse that ‘it’s not my tale to tell,’ I’ll flatten you.”
             “You are perfectly fine, then.” Matthew’s mouth twitched.
* (29:01) – Diana reminds Gallowglass of “Granny”
“I really couldn’t say,” Gallowglass replied serenely. “She reminds me a bit of Granny, though. We give Philippe advice morning, noon, and night about how best to control her. Not that he listens.”
* (29:23) – The inquisitors enter. They are somewhat shocked to find some pretty high members of the Queen’s court in their presence…we talk about Matthew’s power play right here.
“Sir Walter,” Danforth said with a bow, taking a cap from his head and twisting it between his fingers. He spotted the Earl of Northumberland. “My lord! I did not know you were still amongst us.”

* (31:11) – YIKES! Technical difficulties! Thanks for your patience! We touch on the Malleus Maleficarum here (image at the top of this page), and how witches were put to death because of it. Also how religious beliefs shaped society and the behaviors within it.

* (32:50) – Jean and Angela pick up with discussing the Puritans and the Protestants – and fake news …

* (34:00) – The comparison of the University credentials.
“That’s part of the Malleus Maleficarum. I did not know that your Latin was good enough to comprehend such a difficult work, Mr. Danforth,” Matthew said. It was the most influential witch-hunting manual ever produced, and a title that struck terror into a witch’s heart. The minister looked affronted. “I attended university, Master Roydon.”“I’m relieved to hear it. That book shouldn’t be in the possession of the weak-minded or superstitious.”“You know it?” Danforth asked.“I, too, attended university,” Matthew replied mildly.
* (34:40) – Proof of Diana’s superpowers. Iffley. Hmmm. He started this shit (we’re convinced of it).
“My wife has no difficulties with her hearing. You needn’t come closer.” “I told you Mistress Roydon has unnatural powers!” Iffley said triumphantly.
* (35:41) – The start of the familiar patterns
Danforth gripped his book. “Who taught you these things, Mistress Roydon?” he called down the echoing expanse of the hall. “From whom did you learn your witchcraft?”
* (35:59) – When they go low, we go high …
“If it’s evil you’re seeking, look for it at Widow Beaton’s.” Though he’d done his best to remain calm, Matthew was rapidly losing his temper.“Do you accuse her of witchcraft, then?” Danforth asked sharply.“No, Matthew. Not that way,” I whispered, tugging on his hand to gain his attention.
* (36:43) – Iffley has gone too far.
“Stop your ears against his words, Mr. Danforth. Roydon might be an instrument of the devil, too,” Iffley warned.
* (37:00) – It’s math.
Harriot sighed and thrust his book at Danforth. “Mathematics, sir, not magic. Widow Beaton spotted a geometry text.”
* (37:55) – a SPY!
“They don’t think I’m a vampire. They know I’m a spy.”
b. Chapter 6
* (38:36) – Intelligencers. We discuss what Kit's motivation is to say this.
 “We prefer to be called intelligencers,” Kit said tartly.
 “Shut it, Marlowe,” Hancock growled, “or I’ll stop that mouth for you."
The James Bond logo
* (39:26) – The hatmaker?!
“So you’re some kind of Elizabethan James Bond? But . . .” I looked at Marlowe, horrified. He would be murdered in a knife fight in Deptford before he reached the age of thirty, and the crime would be linked to his life as a spy. “The London hatmaker near St. Dunstan’s who turns such a neat brim? That James Bond?”
* (39:38) – Matthew worked for Henry.
“I’d left England late in Henry’s reign. I spent time in Constantinople, went to Cyprus, wandered through Spain, fought at Lepanto—even set up a printing business in Antwerp,” Matthew explained. “It’s the usual path for a wearh. We search for a tragedy, an opportunity to slip into someone else’s life. But nothing suited me, so I returned home. France was on the verge of religious and civil war. When you’ve lived as long as I have, you learn the signs. A Huguenot schoolmaster was happy to take my money and go to Geneva, where he could raise his daughters in safety. I took the identity of his long-dead cousin, moved into his house in Paris, and started over as Matthew de la Forêt.”
* (41:39) – There’s always a de Clermont on the Congregation.
Hancock grinned. “That’s why there’s always a de Clermont on the Congregation—to make sure lofty ideals don’t get in the way of good business.”
* (42:13) – Angela clarifies our reasoning of ruling Baldwin out (our musings while waiting for the publication of the The Book of Life.)

* (43:33) – The pieces of Matthew de Clermont (Roydon)
Scientist. Vampire. Warrior. Spy. Another piece of Matthew fell into place, and with it I better understood his ingrained habit of never sharing anything—major or minor—unless he was forced to do so.
* (43:50) – Hancock side-eyes Kit.
“Why, you sly, wee boggart,” Hancock said softly. “It’s you who’s been stirring up the villagers.”
 Kit’s cheeks burned red in twin pronouncements of guilt.
* (44:38) – When Hal has to tell you to be quiet . . . damn.
“Quiet, Kit,” Henry cautioned, pulling at his arm
* (44:52) – Kit’s lament.
“You cannot silence me. Telling the queen is my duty. Once you would have agreed with me, Henry. But since the witch came, everything’s changed! She has enchanted everyone in the house.” Kit’s eyes were frantic. “You dote on her like a sister. George is half in love. Tom praises her wit, and Walter would have her skirts up and her back against a wall if he weren’t afraid of Matt. Return her to where she belongs. We were happy before.”
* (45:00) – Leave him to me. Ok, we felt pretty badly for Kit here.
“You say you love him.” Kit turned to me, his face full of entreaty. “Do you truly know what he is? Have you seen him feed, felt the hunger in him when a warmblood is near? Can you accept Matthew completely—the blackness in his soul along with the light—as I do? You have your magic for solace, but I am not fully alive without him. All poetry flies from my mind when he is gone, and only Matthew can see what little good I have in me. Leave him to me. Please.”
* (45:44) – The knife to Kit’s heart.
“You would have her over me?” Kit sounded dumbfounded. “In a heartbeat. Get out,” repeated Matthew.
DAMNNNNNNNNNN! Famous scene from Friday that could easily describe Kit's situation. Image from GIPHY
* (46:22) – Awww, buuuuuuuurn! Angela brings up the rowdy audience at the Apollo, Val brings up the famous “DAMNNNNNNNNN” from Smokey and Craig on Friday.

* (47:04) – Here comes Pierre with the mail.
Pierre slipped through the open door looking stricken, another piece of mail in his hand. “Not now, Pierre,” Matthew groaned, sitting down and reaching for his wine. His shoulders sagged against the back of his chair. “There simply isn’t room in this day for one more crisis—be it queen, country, or Catholics. Whatever it is can wait until morning.” “But . . . milord,” Pierre stammered, holding out the letter. Matthew glanced at the decisive writing that marched across the front.
* (48:01) – Philippe thinks Matthew is dead . . .
“This isn’t the time or place for your philosophical nonsense, Matthew. Even now Philippe wonders if he has lost another son!” Gallowglass exclaimed. “Leave the girl with us, get on your horse, and do what your father commands. If you don’t, I’ll knock you out and Hancock will carry you there.”
* (49:10) – Diana figures out the Knights structure based on Matthew's explanation in A Discovery of Witches.
“So you’re one of the order’s eight provincial masters and report directly to Philippe,” I said thoughtfully. “I’m surprised you’re not the ninth knight.” The ninth knight was a mysterious figure in the order, his identity kept secret from all except those at the very highest levels. Raleigh swore so vehemently that Pierre gasped. “You keep the fact that you’re a spy and a member of the Congregation from your wife, yet you tell her the most private business of the brotherhood?”
* (49:30) – The coin.
[...] an ancient silver coin had been pushed into its surface, the edges worn and thin, instead of the usual impression of the order’s seal. The coin was stamped with a cross and a crescent, two de Clermont family symbols.
* (50:29) – Does he really, though?
“I outrank everyone in this room, madam, with the exception of your husband,” Raleigh cautioned. “And that includes you.”
* (51:00) – Planning for the upcoming trip.
Our plans for departure took shape quickly. Walter and Gallowglass argued about the best route, while Matthew set his affairs in order. Hancock was dispatched to London with Henry and a leather-wrapped packet of correspondence. As a peer of the realm, the earl was required at court for the celebrations of the queen’s anniversary on the seventeenth of November. George and Tom were packed off to Oxford with a substantial sum of money and a disgraced Marlowe. Hancock warned them of the dire consequences that would ensue if the daemon caused any more trouble. Matthew might be far away, but Hancock would be within sword’s reach and would not hesitate to strike if it was warranted. In addition, Matthew instructed George on exactly what questions about alchemical manuscripts he could ask the scholars of Oxford.
From Diana's commonplace book. Digital rendition by Maro Hogan
* (51:45) – Diana’s last act before departing for France:
My last act at the Old Lodge was to take the book Matthew had given me to the library. It would be easy to lose such an item on the way to Sept-Tours, and I wanted my diary to be as safe from prying eyes as possible. I stooped to the rushes and picked up sprigs of rosemary and lavender. Then I went to Matthew’s desk and selected a quill and a pot of ink and made one final entry.
             5 November 1590 cold rain
            News from home. We are preparing for a journey.
            After blowing gently on the words to set the ink, I slipped the rosemary and lavender into the crevice between the pages. My aunt used rosemary for memory spells and lavender to breathe a note of caution into love charms—a fitting combination for our present circumstances.
            “Wish us luck, Sarah,” I whispered as I slid the small volume into the end of the shelf, in hopes that it would still be there should I return
* (52:15) Housekeeping: Thanks goes to members of our Facebook group, Andie and Kathryn. Thanks VeganJilly for your wonderful review. 😊

That Baldwin picture . . . .
A dark-haired headshot of Trystan Gravelle
* (54:38) Save It For the Show … Topic: Baldwin casting! Jean thinks he has a lovely voice, Valerie thought that first picture put out with Trystan Gravelle as Baldwin was unfortunate due to the angle. We trust Deb when she says he’s sexy in the role. We really go off of the rails here when Angela points out Jean’s dodgy “delicious asshole” comment, and Jean turns the tables and highlights Valerie’s ridiculous Marcus cougar-crush.

* (1:00:41) Promo break – scroll down, or click here to get a hold of us and/or become a Discusser -- information on joining our Facebook group also located on that page.

* (1:01:50) Last Thoughts/Things We Can't Let Go Of! Jean’s last thought: she wonders why Matthew called the coin a “test of loyalty,” and we discuss it for a bit. Angela is watching our Tumblr following and suggests we have a Tumblr exclusive giveaway when we hit the magic number of 782 followers. Valerie reminds us that it is the New Year, and that also means All Souls Con is coming faster than we know! She also tells us that Laura will join us in an upcoming episode for a chapter review, and we’ll talk about All Souls Con. Valerie also clarifies an “assholish” statement made in a previous episode. She stands by it, but clarifies. Join our Facebook group, everyone!
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  • * NOTE: Please keep in mind that this group is only a supplement to our podcast. We recommend that you join only if you truly enjoy the podcast and want to discuss things further. Listening just to gain entry will be a waste of our time, and frankly yours! The screening process has been intensified to keep membership intimate, and to try to keep out folks who don’t have the best intentions for the group and its dynamic. It's an imperfect process, but we are determined to keep it a healthy place for speculation and more detailed discussion for all members, including us. When we opened the group, we decided to require listener-only membership because podcasting is a very personal medium. People who listen tend to know how we are and think. Those who like what we have to say (and don't find us too abrasive/foul-mouthed/opinionated 😈), will most likely enjoy the group to its fullest, and utilize it as a sounding board with other like-minded members who have the ability to peacefully discuss divergent or opposing ideas. We don't have time to worry about mal-intent, because it breeds drama and discourse. If we're not comfortable, then the rest of the members won't be comfortable. None of this is negotiable. It's simply how it is. This is why the Facebook group is not public and we don't advertise it on Deb's website, social media, or other venues.
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Take 28 - The One With Good Intentions

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Credits/Copyright Information 
* Intro music: "Ghost Dance" (edited down to second chorus) by Kevin Macleod, licensed for use by Creative Commons.
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