Thursday, August 3, 2017

Daemons Discuss - Podcast: Take 20! | Philippe de Clermont's Role in the All Souls Trilogy - A Primer Episode For Shadow of Night

Hercules taming the Cretan Bull (the 7th labor)

Take 20 - The One With the Kingmaker

Description: Philippe de Clermont. Need we say more? Truly, that name was made for the proverbial mic-drop. Nonetheless, we make a valiant attempt at profiling the "Kingmaker."

SPOILER ALERT! We (The Daemons) approach this podcast with an assumption that the listener has read The All Souls Trilogy, including A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night, and The Book of Life.  If you haven't, and you don't mind, we certainly don't mind!  😊  Let's do this.


Download .Mp3 of the episode

1. Show notes:

For newcomers to the series:
- We'll start with the basics: The books in discussion are A Discovery of Witches, Shadow of Night and The Book of Life.  Together they make The All Souls Trilogy by Deborah Harkness.
- Our Daemon Guides to the All Souls Trilogy are available for download: ADOW, SON, TBOL

Deb's newsletter - The Blast; subscribe on her website
- If you'd like a ready-reference from the author herself, be sure to download the All Souls Real-Time Reading companion (free e-book at online booksellers via Penguin and Headline books).
- Deborah Harkness usually conducts a real-time reading on her Facebook Page (starting in September), and shares her posts across social media. Check out her website for all of her social media links, and of course all that she has to offer her readers! Be sure to sign up for her newsletter while you are there!
- To see what's available on the web as far as the All Souls universe fandom, check our links page.

In this episode:
* (01:13) - Thanks Discussers, Rute, Kate, Angela (New England Angela!), & Patricia! Read full versions of the emails here.

* (05:56) - Jean pours herself some coffee … we decided to leave it in.

* (06:26) - Our outline (we absolutely did not follow this in order!):
* (07:40) - We know about his 6 children (3 men, 3 women) were there any more?

* (08:23) - We discuss why Philippe turned Baldwin; he liked the guy!

* (08:47) - Baldwin was cut from the same cloth as Philippe – they were from similar type periods Greek/Roman.
The middle son in Philippe de Clermont’s brood of three male children, Baldwin had been made a vampire in Roman times and had been Philippe’s favorite. They were cut from the same cloth—fond of war, women, and wine, in that order. Despite these amiable characteristics, those who faced him in combat seldom lived to recount the experience.
* (12:25) - Valerie brings up some of the things Philippe had to do that perhaps wouldn't make for good P.R.. Leaders like Philippe have to make decisions that aren’t pretty.

* (13:35) - We theorize that Philippe is a bit indulgent with Gallowglass. We compare the treatment with Ysabeau and Marcus.  We also note that Gallowglass is “lone-wolfy”

* (15:07) - We go off on a tangent here – we discussed Gallowglass’ assignment to watch over Diana for her lifetime until she meets Matthew. We looked at Philippe’s choices, and concluded Gallowglass was the best one to do it.

Modern-day Clermont-Ferrand
* (16:47) - Clermont-Ferrand was chosen as his home base; the legend of Hercules, the legend of the creation of the Pyrenees Mountains originated within a 150 mile radius of the Auvergne & Clermont-Ferrand.

* (17:47) - In this universe, the myth of Hercules was based on the stories told about Philippe.

* (18:00) - Jean mentions BookTalk Nation on SoundCloud; this is where Deb explains why she chose the legend of Hercules for Philippe: Deborah Harkness on BookTalk Nation

* (19:35) - The story of Hercules, or in Greek: Heracles … and the 12 labors.

Hercule's 3rd labor - The Hind of Ceryneia
* (20:45) - During the 12 labors, this is when Hercules runs into Artemis, (in this universe the Goddess – the one that Diana winds up acting for, due to her bargain to save Matthew – ‘Artemis,’ the Greek version is actually ’Diana’ in Roman stories). Artemis comes up during the 3rd labor.

Ariel on a Bat's Back - the depiction of Ariel - Rabbi Loew touched on the story in Shadow of Night - painting by Henry Singleton
* (23:03) - We conclude that Philippe had his fingers in every pie; Wars of the Roses, the Plantagenets, King Francis, the Tudors, the stories among the Jews in Prague, and the French Resistance. The end game was turning situations into the most advantageous or profitable for the de Clermonts. Also, we felt he craved regional stability.

* (25:29) - The congregation and Philippe’s involvement -- we don’t think Philippe agreed with the congregation. He knew it was going to happen anyway, and he came into it to mitigate the situation.  With the knowledge of the brightborn, he felt he needed to watch over things there with a member on the family on it (OUR SPECULATION!)

* (30:30) - From what we are told in the books, Gerbert wanted to be in with the de Clermonts. During the 10th Century Gerbert was Pope, and Domenico was a Doge of Venice. We believe they may have had something to do with the forming of the congregation (their meddling in religion).

* (31:42) - Did the de Clermonts have the only dedicated seat? Upon first read, it seems so, but Valerie brings up the question.

* (33:00) - Jean some days suspects Domenico may be blood-ragey himself. Her other theory is that Louisa turned him. Again: SPECULATION!

* (34:00) - Louisa -- we feel -- was indulged by the family until the event with Diana. She was set up for failure when she was banished to the Indies.
“She went to Barbados, intent on making herself queen of the Indies. We tried to tell her that her taste for young gentlemen was not likely to go unnoticed on a small island, but she wouldn’t listen. Louisa loved plantation life. She invested in sugar—and slaves.” A shadow flitted across his face. “During one of the island’s rebellions, her fellow plantation owners, who had figured out what she was, decided to get rid of her. They sliced off Louisa’s head and cut her body into pieces. Then they burned her and blamed it on the slaves.”
* (35:10) - That timey-wimey thing: The reason why Louisa is not with us today, is BECAUSE of Diana

* (36:00) - Hugh died w/ the Templars: History of the Knights Templar. Gallowglass resents France, and possibly Philippe for lack of attempting to save Hugh from that fate.

Angela compares Baldwin to Col. Jessup from A Few Good Men
* (37:46) - Jean believes Baldwin was cast as the role of the “Bad Cop” – Angela compares Baldwin to the role of Col. Jessup in A Few Good Men. Jean says another reason we don’t get a whole picture of Baldwin is we never get to see him interact with Philippe. Also, Philippe tended to accept the concept of fate.

* (39:30) - Philippe tended to get people to do the jobs they hated the most, but he chose the tasks and assigned them to the people most suited.

* (40:12) - The Crusades – we discuss Philippe's involvement, and some other family members! We also bring up Baldwin, Melisende aka Ysabeau, Eleanor of Aquitaine (her name comes up in the ledgers as giving the Knights of Lazarus 40K marks). The Instagram post that Angela mentioned:

* (40:46) - What we know from the ledgers: the de Clermonts purchased the first cannon for the first ship in the Battle of Lepanto, and also provided the payment of Mary Tudor’s dowry for her marriage to Philip II of Spain.

* (41:37) - Was Philippe involved in the Anne Boleyn affair (being a key factor in English Reformation), or the whole deal with Mary, Queen of Scots? If so, perhaps Elizabeth I wouldn’t be a friend of his!

* (42:30) – Outremer: we conclude that this may have been an experiment gone sideways. Maybe a failure of his? Maybe just an experiment. Jean says maybe he underestimated the events going on with the humans. Valerie says maybe Philippe underestimated element of assured failure based on human involvement, Angela adds that there may be elements of sabotage (maybe by other vampire families).

* (43:55) - House of Drăculești (speaking of vampire families…), What do we know? Who’s involved? What is the history with house of de Clermont? We shall see …

* (44:51) - We think that Philippe had equal respect for women, as well as men. See Melisende. Despite roles assigned based on current societal norms, he was pragmatic about his assignments.

* (46:50) - The Knights of Lazarus wasn’t disbanded; we felt that Philippe felt that it had potential to still be useful in modern times.

* (48:00) - Even during WWII the times seemed a bit regressive for women. Women in war were relegated to typing pools, nursing, espionage and occasionally turning a wrench (brought up because we were musing that it took Marcus coming into power as the Grand Master in order for females to become knights).

* (48:37) - Julia Child! OK, we looked this up -- Jean was right: Julia Child Cooked up Double Life As a Spy

* (49:33) Save It For the Show…
Referring to chapter 10 of Shadow of Night, why didn’t Matthew see Diana in Philippe’s blood? We discuss that here. Somehow The Matrix and Harry Potter were brought up in this discussion! It kind of wound up all over the place, but fun anyway!

* (57:47) Housekeeping! – Thanks Stephen for his reveal on that UK review, voice mail from New England Angela. Daemon kisses to you both! Angela brings up the fact that she was in Salem the same time Deb was.  It brought us memories from our Salem trip in 2013. We also visited Cambridge and Harvard University, and the Isabella Gardener museum on that same trip. Some photos (as promised):

Getting our "witch" on in Salem with some friends
From the Salem Witch Trials Memorial
John Harvard statue
A favorite painting of ours from the Isabella Gardner Museum - El Jaleo
* (1:03:40) Promo breakscroll down, or click here to get a hold of us and/or become a Discusser.

* (1:04:55) - Jean’s last thought: THERE ARE NO SUCH THING AS SPOILERS IN THIS SERIES AT THIS POINT! Valerie’s last thought? How the heck did Jean witness heads being bit off of squirrels? Jean tells the story.
-- All Souls Con info (which winds up being Angela’s last thought, specifically that the NOPSI hotel looks "FAB-U-LOUS" -- it just opened in July after renovation):
Thanks goes to the concierge, Travis, from the NOPSI Hotel, and Simon from Pippa, and last but not least, our wonderful Discussers who participated this time.

Previous Episode
Take 19 - The One With the Visions, the Vow & the Venetian

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